Beating Cancer with Michelle Patterson

Transcript

Michelle, it’s so great to have you on the show.

Well, thank you, Stephan. I’m really looking forward to it.

It’s been a while. The last time I saw you, it’s probably several years ago. You were doing a lot of cool stuff for women with your events. You have California Women’s Conference, I think, is the name of it. Is that right?

Correct. It’s evolved as well. The recent life opportunities that I’m going through, it’s really evolved. That conference for me was so powerful because it taught me how to really source and go after what’s available on the planet, specifically for women as it relates to their health. We looked at sleep, pain, anxiety, stress.

I ended up really uncovering the cannabis industry with my mom, in particular, who was taking Ambien. My father was a former narcotics investigator with the DA. He called and said, “Your mom is sleepwalking. We found her at the foot of the stairs, 4 o’clock in the morning with no clothes on. She was on her shoes, she was going to Target to shop, and sleep on the Ambien.” 

What we did was we ended up through the context that I had, just getting into the cannabis business and learning about it. We were able to put her on the tincture that she takes right before she goes to bed and was able to get a good night’s sleep. She’d been struggling for years, not getting sleep.

You mentioned the tincture. That reminds me of something I just recently learned about. My beloved cat passed away from cancer not more than six months ago. 

That’s heartbreaking.

It is heartbreaking. It is so hard.

I don’t think people really understand sometimes. I’ve had a beautiful, amazing family, but there are days where my 14-year-old dog, I think I like my dog better than my kids. It’s like, let me just snuggle up to my little puppy. 

Thank you. It is still hard and it hit Orion even harder than me. First, it was my oldest daughter’s cat. Then, I ended up inheriting the cat. It was 12 years of joyful time with the cat for me and six years for Orion. 

Back to this idea, this tincture. Orion had been doing so much research on what kind of alternative remedies could we find for this cancer that seemed to be really aggressive and fast-moving. We had discovered it very late. We just thought she had some digestive issues. A month later, she passed away after just finding out what it was. In all that research Orion did, she found something called Rick Simpson oil. 

This is potentially life-saving for some folks, human or pet. You owe it to yourself and to them to do your research and look into it. Do you want to say anything about Rick Simpson oil or any of these other tinctures that are out there?

Yeah. I’d love too. One of the things that we did was we vetted through thousands of products that were national—some of it were international—and really looked at what’s available on the planet today. I had a personal interest. This would be the first podcast that I actually shared this information. April 15th, this past year, I had been feeling this pain on my left side. I went into the doctors and I asked them to go and do a checkup, maybe something was going on with my heart. I didn’t feel good on my left side, on my left arm. All the way down my leg was just feeling horrible. 

I went to the doctors. They said, “You know what? It looks like you have a pinched nerve.” I then left. It still continues to hurt. I went back in and they said, “You still have a pinched nerve.” I said, “You know what? There is a lump that I’m feeling on my left breast and we should look into that.” They did come back, I went through, and had a biopsy.

April 15th, I was diagnosed with Stage 4 breast cancer. I know you and I have talked and met. I thought, I definitely would want to follow up with you. For me, going in and not being told, Stage 1, Stage 2, Stage 3, you’re 4. And then, some of the doctors—I went to three separate hospitals—start telling you life expectancy, three months, six months. It’s always funny because it’s in these three-month increments.

It felt a little bit like Candid Camera where somebody was going to jump out and say, “I’m just messing with you. You don’t have it.” My family was there, my husband. We got this news and immediately, I went into this mindset of, “Okay. You know what? I need to listen. I need to slow down.” I had been arguing with my body for quite some time. Now, I had been saying, “I’ll take a rest after I finish this conference. I’ll take a rest after I have this event,” and I kept doing that. 

Sometimes, what happens is we verbally don’t say that but our body knows. I really needed to take a timeout. I, right now, am on a wellness sabbatical that I went on. What fills me up is that I didn’t want to go and being told I had 90 days to live. I wanted to be with my family. I didn’t want to go off to Mexico or Peru. You hear about all these different things. 

Because of my experience producing and being the CEO of the California Women’s Conference, I had great access. I thought, “You know what? I’m going to go ahead and find out what’s on the planet. Then, I’m going to tell everybody. I’m going to tell them what did I do, how did I get through it,” because I couldn’t get past when they’re telling me what my options were. It was chemo, the highest form of chemoradiation. I wasn’t a candidate. I’m still not a candidate for surgery because it has spread in so many places. 

I laughed. Sometimes you have that laugh. It’s either laugh or cry. I started making a couple of jokes. As we’re going through, “It’s in your lymph node.” “It’s in your L1.” “It’s in your sternum.” You start to cut the days out. My response back to the doctors was, “You think I got a chance?” It was like dumb and dumber with the comment back because they hadn’t said an organ. So I thought, “That’s good. It’s not in an organ.” 

I came home and decided, “I was going to go ahead and just love myself through this.” I was going to be my best friend, and I haven’t been that. I started thinking about how I’ve been talking to myself. It’s that monkey chatter where it’s like, “You shouldn’t have done this. You shouldn’t have done that. You’re not smart enough, you didn’t figure that out.” I wasn’t being my best friend. I can honestly say to you, going through this experience, that my husband and I talked about it, is I never would wish Stage 4 definitely on anybody, myself included in that.

It has been a beautiful life experience, of that pathway of falling in love and being a mama bear to yourself. The biggest thing that I’ve learned is recognizing out of the 8 billion people on the planet, I was born in this body, in this earth suit now, and I can’t help but think, it’s like I’m different just like you. You were born in your body. We are responsible for being our best advocate and personal advisor. 

What was interesting is, I’ve been saying that before and getting quoted on your wellness. I kept saying that out there. When this happened, my husband and I were sitting on the lake. We live in Mission Viejo Lake, which we absolutely love. We’re sitting on the lake and he’s reading the book, 12 Rules for Life by Jordan Peterson. Chapter two is to treat yourself like you’re somebody you’re responsible for. My husband looks at me. We just celebrated 22 years of marriage and all the things that go along with being married. He looks at me and he says the name of the chapter. I’m like, “That is the strangest thing.”

I’ve always been so others-focused. I’ve always been this doer. I’ve been swearing a lot lately. Just be, like what we’re doing right now. Being able to come together and talk about how, as families, we’re navigating through this. We are on the lake, I took my husband, we had a family situation where a family member was in the hospital for 23 nights—that’s their story, so I’ll let them tell their story—but just months prior, I was a total mama bear.

When these all hit, it was like, “I need to be a mama bear for me.” I need to really do some soul searching and ask myself what is it that my needs are and I need to express them. What was happening is I was burying it and I wasn’t expressing what my needs were. When you bury it, it becomes resentment and it calcified into cancer. My cancer is a 100% stress and environment. I don’t have the cancer gene and it’s not in my family. But because I’ve been hard-charging and driving, it didn’t recognize the relationship with my body, soul, and spirit. I looked at it as, “Suck it up, body. Suck it up. Get on board. This is where we’re going.” I did not put myself and my wellness into consideration, and it’s stopped me dead in my tracks.

Again, a beautiful experience. I have zero fear of dying. I feel like I’ve been given this beautiful gift of being able to have this time with my family and my purpose for what I feel like I’m on the planet, and that is to share this information. My grandmother passed away from cancer. I can remember her wailing and being very set against taking anything as she was taking chemo and radiation. The pain was so severe. 

Fast forward for me, I went in with the mindset of let’s look at what’s on the planet today. I don’t care if it’s western or eastern medicine. If you’re a Republican or a Democrat. If you’re white or black. All I want is what’s going to help me stay on the planet, be with my family, take the oxygen mask off first so that I can be that wellness provider, and provide for my family. 

We’ve been just rocking it. My husband and I were high fiving going down the hallway. It’s like, “You know what? We got this.” After 22 years of marriage, it’s like, “Let’s go. Let’s make this happen.” My first PET scan, I went in, had my whole family there and everything. I go to who I think is just a phenomenal human on the planet. Dr. Greg Angstreich is my oncologist at Hoag Hospital in Orange County. I started taking a cannabis protocol. I had a 52% reduction in my tumors that came back from my first PET scan after eight weeks.

Is that unheard of?

Yes. My doctor’s comment back was, “Okay. We don’t see this happening.” My family talked about, “Should we put her on an Ibrance protocol?” He’s like, “Let’s go ahead. Let’s wait and see because we don’t see results like this.” I did go in for another PET scan. I was not doing the best job in the first eight weeks. I set up my healing at home. I was doing what I am full of passion for, and that is sharing what is it that I’m dealing with. I was doing that, capturing that, and just really getting good about meditation, my diet, and what I was doing. I was swimming a lot in the lake. Then, I get a little cocky. I took on some more work. I thought that I can get back to it. 

I went into the next PET scan and the tumor increased by 20%. Not all the way, I didn’t have any new results since. The doctor said, “It’s nothing to be alarmed about but let’s go back to basics. Let’s do what you were doing before.” I had cut the stress myself out. It was too much. What happens is similar to the placebo effect. 

This placebo effect is if you are putting something to your body, and you don’t feel comfortable with it, you feel like there’s a stigma around it, and you don’t think it’s the healthiest thing. That’s why I am telling my family and my friends, “It’s a personal decision.” It’s for you to make that decision, for you to drop into what it is that you need and you want. 

I created a wellness team family that’s comprised of many doctors. Thought leaders that are on the planet today that I’m able to tap into to learn how to manage stress and some mainstream meditation.

I’ve been having a real joy just going through this process, loving on myself, falling in love with myself, and saying, “If I’m filled up, I am a much better mom, I’m a much better business partner. I’m full and I can live and love deeply to the people in my life.”

You mentioned the placebo effect. I just recently learned of this term that is very related. The point about this is it’s a reverse placebo effect. If you believe that what you’re taking is not helpful for you, then it has a negative impact. That’s called a nocebo.

If you think that what you’re taking ends up being an inert substance, you think it’s a negative, that it’s harmful to your health, it will actually harm you.

Exactly. There are so many studies on that. That’s probably why I’m so excited. It’s because right now, we’re in the age of information. We’re in the age of technology. This information is at our fingertips. Look at right now, with this podcast. Even right from your phone, go on, and you can start to learn about what is available and what’s not. 

You owe it to yourself and to your loved ones to do your research and look into cancer and its cures. Share on X

I love what Dr. Joe Dispenza talks about the placebo effect. You’ve got people in there that, depending on what that thought process is because of thought then it becomes a feeling. How are you portraying that? I have a lot of supplements. I have a lot of things that I’m taking, including a simple glass of warm water with lemon as I wake up. I have this routine that I’m doing and I take pause, which is really important for a type A personality that’s been driving since she was 7 years old when she was taking care of her brother, sister, and five foster kids. I was a little parent then.

I decided to never let up the gas and up until now. Now, it’s like a whole new program. I take pause and I really reflect at just being grateful that I have this plant medicine, for one, with cannabis. I’m truly grateful for people like Joe Callow. That’s where I go to get my cannabis. He’s in San Clemente. I’m not tied with this company or anything. I just know, for me personally, I could not imagine not having this as part of my healing journey and part of my healing routine. 

It’s been that helpful for me to just really relax and keep the stress from coming up. As Doctor Greg said, “We have seen people that have taken cannabis and they’re at a point like you, Michelle, with Stage 4. Your options are limited. They go off, they take this, and I come back. They have huge results.” Again, 52%. It was 40% in the original breast tumor. Then, 52% for what had metastasized. I would love to come back and we can talk about it now but really talk about what cannabis does and how it helped me along with the other treatments that I’ve been doing. 

It’s just been really exciting to see what people are doing and I’m not the only one. There’s plenty of individuals out there that stepped into owning their wellness and making it a journey for them. Not their families, not what their husband wants, not with their kids are telling them. It’s like, “What is it that I want to do? What is it that I know that I need?” I’m tapping into what my body is saying to me. 

My body had told me a few times. I have taken Stelara for a few years because I had horrific psoriasis especially when I had a lot of stress. A lot of times we’re on the events that I would put on and it was horrible. I’m still dealing with it to some extent. What I did was, I went in. I took a Stelara shot. They asked the question, “Who’s your oncologist?” At that time, I really didn’t even know what an oncologist was. I was not very familiar with cancer. I thought, “That’s a weird question. Why are they asking that?” 

The Stelara represses your immune system. For me, right now, the most that I can do in helping my body heal is by protecting and supporting my immune system. There’s a lot of very smart people on the planet that I plan on interviewing and sharing what they’re doing. They are supporting your immune system. Our bodies are pretty miraculous. They do amazing things. It’s a lot of cool stuff that’s happening.

When somebody hears the mention of cannabis or marijuana, they’re thinking, “Okay, whatever.” They already dismissed it because of the stigma. I have to admit that I had a prejudice against marijuana or cannabis. I’ve never actually tried it, never had any interest in smoking pot. I never even smoked a cigarette. 

That’s like my husband saying no, zip, nothing. I’m not even until my 40s. Again, my father was a narcotics agent. You don’t do that. He did that for his entire profession.

The stigma got set aside. This is plant medicine. I had to go through that paradigm shift myself when I wanted to do just anything possible to prolong my cat’s life and make her more comfortable. It did seem to work for a little bit of time. It did seem to ameliorate her symptoms and she seemed to be in less pain. Although, it’s really hard to read cats. They’re so good at hiding their pain for so long. That’s why you oftentimes don’t catch it. They have a very advanced disease until it’s really late.

It’s heartbreaking. That’s your baby. To have a family member, the pet is such a key component in even healing as well. My dog sleeps right next to me every night. I take my cannabis and my CVD, he has his, both of us at the same time.

Yeah. We’re still dealing with the grief of it. The way with Orion, my wife sees it as a beautiful gift that came into our life, our cat. That was her practice baby. Now we have our own natural newborn.

Congratulations.

Thank you. He’s almost a month old in two days. 

It goes fast, I will tell you. I’m sure you’ve heard this before. People say this, but you never really believe it, and then you wake up and you’re like, “I don’t even have teenagers anymore. I have a 20- and 21-year-old.” It’s like, “Where did the time go?” It goes so fast.

My other kids are 23, almost 27, and 28. It goes by fast, I know. I have this opportunity to do it all again with all the learnings, growth, and all that that I had over the years. It’s an incredible gift.

Isn’t that nice though, too, if you can come back? I feel that way. I think it’s similar to the process that you go through for healing. Everything is focused on, “What can I learn? How can I show up better? How can I be a better human on the planet?” It is amazing that when you get into alignment with incongruence internally, you’re able to love deeply others. The stuff that bothered me before doesn’t bother me anymore. 

When you’re told you have 90 days to live, it really rocks your world as far as, “How do I want to spend time?” Even this call. I surpassed my expiration date now, several months ago. I’m feeling great. If you’re to see me, it’s confusing for people. They look at me and I look better than I looked in the last 10 years. I dropped 30 pounds, I’m eating the healthiest. I’m really supporting my immune system. People see me, “Oh my gosh. What are you doing?” I joked, “I keep getting cuter with this cancer.”

I feel like because of that congruence internally, I’m really staying and sharing, “This is what I need. This is what fills me up. This is what helps me heal.” It’s the same process with your relationships as it is with your finance. People go at this and they think that they have to rally behind other streams. They discount putting themselves first, of what it is, what really lights them up, what is their genius. That’s what I’ve been doing.

I’m having a really exciting time being able to find what resources are on the planet with these companies, who are socially responsible. Are they sourcing products responsibly? We’ve got a big epidemic with the opioid crisis. We’ve got issues around women not being involved in clinical trials. In going through this process, having all these doctor’s appointments which I’ve been collecting all these pieces of information. I’m working with the Susan Samueli Integrative Health Institute and UC Irvine Institute to be able to track these. There’s just not enough clinical trials or not enough studies. I can’t wait. If I wait for these things to get approved by the FDA, some stuff doesn’t even make it to the shelf because it’s so good. That’s a whole other podcast.

The biggest thing for me is enough of having a conversation around and bringing stigmas to the table. If there’s somebody on the planet that can have a conversation about cannabis and really talk about its value, looking at it from a medicinal standpoint, it’s me. Especially, I’m the oldest girl in my family and having a dad who is one of the biggest loves of my life. We joke and I tell him, “Dad, I’m not a dealer. I’m a healer.” And how important it is to be able to have individuals have access and let them make the decision about what it is they want to do. If they want to do chemo, if they want to do radiation, if they want to do cannabis.

But I want to know what’s out there and let’s have a conversation without bringing fear to the table, without bringing these stigmas, without bringing politics. I want good old fashioned mama bear, papa bear, “Let’s sit down and no pointing fingers.” Just what the F is on the planet right now. I think none of us should go in and have cancer. None of us should have sleepless nights. Literally, one out of three women will get cancer. One out of two men will get cancer. That’s just wrong.

I just recently heard that cancer has surpassed heart disease now in the US as the number one killer. Statistically speaking, for me and the listeners, you, listeners, are most likely to die from cancer. This is important and it’s relevant. If it’s not going to affect you, then you are very fortunate. It’s going to affect, statistically speaking, some of the biggest loved ones in your life.

Right, in your family. My dad had cancer that’s stage one this year. It was happening. It’s not even three degrees separation. It’s like a one-off. It’s happening to our families. Again, if we point fingers and we talk about who’s not doing what, to me, we’re going to lose a lot of lives that way. We need to come together and start sharing. I want to hear from people that are actually going through the experience.

I have a call that I do once a week. We’re going to be opening that. Five of my girlfriends have Stage 4 cancer. One has colon cancer. The others have breast cancer. You have men at age 30 getting colon cancer. What is going on? Then, to be told it’s stress or environment. Is it in the water? What is it that we’re doing? We need to come together and that’s what I’ve been working on. It’s creating a platform and if I can be a catalyst to be able to get to the bottom of these issues and just talk about them, and say, “I’m in this situation. This is what I did.” Like I said earlier, I didn’t want to go off. I want to be able to stay in my home with my family for 90 days. I was fortunate to be working with a company that supported me in my wellness sabbatical. 

Sometimes our body knows what's happening before we do, and we can only find out what it's telling us if we pause and listen carefully. Share on X

What I want to do in my wellness sabbatical is I wanted to figure out what’s available and then, I wanted to share it. That fills me up. It’s been a beautiful process interacting with individuals like yourself. I love your wife. You just got a beautiful family. I think mama bear and papa bear need to come out, start talking about this stuff, and figuring out what to do. It’s on an epidemic level. It’s that bad out there. Having experienced it firsthand and having the doctors tell you, they’re going into this as a wellness provider. They have just a few solutions—chemo, radiation, and surgery—to be able to share with you. But there’s a lot of other stuff on the planet.

Let’s actually talk about some of these things. Clearly, cannabis was one of them. We talked about their different tinctures and things like that, Rick Simpson oil, being one of them. There are also spiritual solutions. I know somebody—a friend of mine—who had great success, defied all the odds, by moving to Brazil, and hanging out with John of God. I don’t know if you’re familiar with John of God. 

I’ve heard that was one of the things that ended up on my radar. Absolutely. There’s so-so. What happened.

It’s almost completely gone. Like I said, defied all the odds. It looked really bad. It was in her jawbone and everything. It all started because of a root canal. Word of warning to the wise here who are considering or will consider in the future getting a root canal, don’t do it. By the way, I should probably disclaim. This is not a piece of medical advice. I’m not a doctor, etc. Consult your physician. Incredible result spent a year or two in Brazil. Now, they’re finally ready to move back home to the US. I think they just recently landed a few days ago. Amazing, amazing outcome.

Congratulations. That’s exactly what we’re talking about. I could literally name off 20 different things and just the things that I’ve been doing. I have a yoga retreat that I’m going up to. I just got that from Niagara Falls and experienced my first meditation walk around the falls. I’ve never even seen Niagara Falls. It was through Dr. Joe Dispenza.

He’s amazing.

I’ll share this with you. Again, it’s no-holds-barred. When you’re diagnosed, you have this mindset of you only want to show up your complete, authentic self because life is too short. I feel like I was given this gift. I didn’t get hit by a car. I didn’t crash in an airplane. I literally was told, “You’ve got to deal with 180-degree change.” I was able and have been able to really get clear with my relationships, family, and being able to go ahead, and experience things like Dr. Joe Dispenza. I’m actually going back to a sold out event in Costa Rica. We had 1650 participants. I have reached out before and could not get in. There was an organ event that has never happened in my lifetime. You know me.

I was like, “Okay.” I’m like, “You know what? That’s awesome.” I got a phone call and a dear friend of mine introduced me to her friend, and I get this phone call and I’ve got a ticket. I’ve got a ticket to go to. I head out there and I was there for nine days.

Here, you’re talking to somebody. I had a hard time sitting still for three minutes. Nevermind. We were meditating. It was so surreal on average 6-8 hours a day. We were getting up. We had two mornings. I had to get up at [3:15] AM. We start the meditation at [4:00] AM. The reasoning that they gave us was your brain is on theta and you’re able to really sink into this meditation. 

I love it. I can’t get enough of it. I haven’t missed one day since I’ve gotten back. I look forward to it. I go to sleep with it. Sometimes, I do it during the day. It’s for about an hour. What I’m doing and what Dr. Joe Dispenza prescribed is doing it for two hours a day. 

Two hours of meditating, just sitting by yourself in silence, with thoughts coming and going. I can’t even imagine that because I have a hard time sitting still for five minutes.

Exactly. Literally, I just got back from this trip. One of the things I used to say is I reached out, my team and his team, and wanted to interview him. He couldn’t work out the schedule. It was declined—the interview—when I went there. I thought, “How awesome is that?” I can’t hopscotch over, start doing what I wanted to do, and share if I haven’t really, fully healed, and got to point and I thought, “That is very cool.” I don’t have to go there and worry about I’m in an interview, I’m going to do all that stuff. 

My sole objective was to go there and heal. My sole objective was to go there and have peace of mind, and really connect my mind, body, soul, and spirit, and let my mind, body, soul, and spirit know that, “Hey, we’re going to do this together.” No longer is my body off by itself. I’m really going to support all aspects of me. 

It was awesome. I went in there and gave it 150%. I had been listening to his videos leading into the event. When I went for my PET scan, one of the things I’ve done besides the cannabis protocol through Joe, I also did every day, these meditations. They were just online because I couldn’t get into the class. The third thing that I did is I have these beautiful friends, Cathy and Kirby, who dropped off a UV sauna. We have that in my garage. I’m in that every single day. That, I love. Just some of these things that you can do that don’t cost a lot, that really make a difference in your healing.

Awesome. Could you share some of those YouTube videos of the meditations from Dr. Joe with me? 

I’d love to. Again, you’re going to take a step back and you look at, “Where do I want to spend my time?” I did a decade of producing conferences—Global Women Foundation, Women Network—and doing all this stuff. I thought, “Gosh. If we could get the wellness providers, if we can get women in the house, these moms, and equip them with these tools and resources that are available, they don’t have to go through life feeling tired, and run down.” 

I’m talking right now. I have Stage 4 breast cancer. I have more energy than I’ve had, I can’t tell you how long. I feel better now. I definitely didn’t feel good even before the diagnosis. I really felt like I was having a heart attack and it was in my chest cavity. I feel like a million bucks and I feel like I am doing each day what I was supposed to do coming on the planet and fulfilling my purpose. That’s finding out what’s available. That fills me up. I would love to share it with your community.

Awesome. Thank you. I’m curious about what your research turned up regarding plant medicine other than cannabis like Ayahuasca. I actually had an episode on this show of where we just deep dive into the concept of microdosing Ayahuasca which again, I haven’t done. Coming from a very ignorant perspective, I had no idea how this all work and what the benefits are. Dennis Notten was the guest. He really illuminated it for me and for the listeners of the potential benefits and how it applies to things like cancer.

If you end up listening to the episode, Michelle, the story that he shared some end-of-life clients, and how, even though he wasn’t able to save them, he was able to really enhance their last days and their transition because of the Ayahuasca. That was illuminating for me. Any thoughts on that? 

Absolutely. I haven’t tried Ayahuasca. I’m not opposed to it but I do feel like going into the mountains and having that experience, for me, I can tell you what I have done, a couple of different things. One experience I have, I went with a medicine man up to Colorado Springs. I was, for 3½ days, in between these prayer ties and it was this thousand-year ritual. I was able to go ahead and stand in this mountain. We didn’t take any substance of any sort. We did the prayer ties, had tobacco, and that was part of this whole ritual, healing, and then going up to the mountains. While I was there, I prayed. I really just got some clarity on these next steps. 

Interestingly enough, 3½ days there, where you’re by yourself and going to this meditation, it was probably the prettiest place I’ve ever been. It was right next to this running creek. No food, no water, going through this. I had a squirrel laying on my back. It was definitely like a Chevy Chase moment. He’s running down. I was like, “Oh my gosh. A squirrel.” I also had a butterfly land on my hand and stayed around for a few hours, at least from what I could tell from the way the sun is setting, hours had passed. It was purple. That was my grandmother’s color. I just felt very present to me. 

It was a surreal experience. What I’m talking about is not directly related to these open heart. Putting me into that environment, being able to go up, be on the mountain, and have that time, just complete quiet, so that I could really dip into that inner peace. 

Another group—I’m happy to share with any of your listeners about this—another community that I have recently been a part of this past year and was introduced to it through my relationship with cannabis—I haven’t done the Ayahuasca—they do use a substance that they refer to as a hope and heart. Very mild. When you do take it—I’ve experienced it with my husband—things get a lot clear on how to navigate through things. 

Interestingly enough—I’m not even giving it justice—that’s why I think it’s going to be great to have an individual on the show that you and I could interview and be able to ask. A lot of people are starting to ask this question and it’s coming up. My husband’s super quiet, total introvert, and he gets very talkative. I’m the opposite. We feel like years of therapy. Just being able to have these real conversations, like I’ve said earlier, authentic conversations, where you’re talking about how to connect, and really how to share what’s on your mind. You just get a lot of clarity.

Between the different solutions that you researched, the one that was by far the most impactful you feel is the cannabis. Then, number two would be the meditation work you did with Dr. Joe, what you took home after the event, and applied. Then, maybe number three was prayer. Give me the top few.

I think being grateful. Prayer and just being grateful. When you get up in the morning, what’s that initial thought? Are you creating space for your response? This is what I’ve learned when I went to Dr. Joe Dispenza’s workshop. We get to control our space of our response. That, for me, is what I had to do right away especially with my cancer being related to stress. 

One of the things that I keep saying because I keep asking that same exact question is, “What are you doing?” I’m calling and we’re talking, “I’m in my home. I’m with my family.” That was super important to me. I realized how important it’s going to be but when you start thinking about days and where you’re spending your time, like I’ve said, want to go off somewhere without my family. If this was my time, I wanted to spend it with the people I love, and I wanted to be with my family. I’m putting together, and that’s what I’m doing, is setting up a playbook, and setting up this protocol book.

To answer your question, those top three areas, it was the cannabis. I feel like I can’t say enough three things about Joe. I can give you the link to my whole interview that I did with him. He talks all about my microdosing, how it helps with homeostasis, and just really getting your overall body calm in alignment. That, for me, was a big deal.

Cancer is 100% stress and the environment if it's not in the genes. Share on X

The second thing was the meditation and going through Dr. Joe Dispenza’s program. I highly recommend getting two of his events. I got a lot out of watching his videos online. After going and actually experiencing it, doing the meditation, and being around a huge group, it was just life-changing. That’s some really neat people that are showing up in consciousness. It’s like, “How can we support one another?” How can we help one another as we journey to oneness and really supporting people? There’s a lot that needs to be done right now. I think that we need to stop doing it. We just need to be and look at what are the facts, what’s available.

The third piece, I’ll say that I think is super important, is being able to define your own wellness journey, and owning your wellness. This was what I learned from my mom. We’re going through this whole thing, leave the doctors, and they said I had a 52% reduction. We’re high fiving out in the parking lot. My husband makes a comment, “You have no treatments.” I’ve just been going there to get the PET scan. The scans, MRIs, biopsies, but I had zero treatments.

I made a comment to my mom and I said, “Mom, if you were in the same situation that I’m in, would you do chemo or would you do cannabis?” My mom got a little flustered and she’s like, “I don’t know. I don’t know what I would do.” I got mad. I’m like, “Mom, are you kidding? You just went through this whole thing with me?” We hung up the phone and I was upset. I couldn’t believe it. “Why is she not jumping on board with cannabis right away?”

I ended up praying about it that night. Thinking about it, I thought, “First of all, my job is not to fix anybody or to convince. It’s simple to just share. As long as I’m on the planet, I’m going to share with anybody that will listen. My job is to be able to share that this is their opportunity to really fall in love with themselves. This act of being a mama bear for themselves, being their best friend, and their best advocate.

I called my mom in the morning, I apologize. I said, “I’m doing the same thing to you that I didn’t want to be done to me. That was shaming me for being and using fear tactics because I wasn’t doing chemo.” I wasn’t doing anything. It’s creating all these tensions with my family and everything. I said, “I’m doing the same thing, so I’m not going to do that. What I’m going to do support is whatever you want. This is your wellness journey and whatever you want.” That’s how I wanted her to show up for me. Once we had that conversation, it was awesome. It was wonderful. It really taught me. Otherwise, I’m going to be frustrated and others are going to be frustrated.

Nobody wants to be fixed. Nobody does. But to have that opportunity, I’ve never felt more alive, I’ve never felt more excited about life to this past time. I’ve also figured out, I don’t have to go at it by myself. I literally have my wellness team family that I’ve put together and then I’m teaching others how to do it. At the same time, my family understands this is my wellness journey.

I explained it to my sister. “This is like my wedding. You get your wedding, I get my wedding,” because they were very upset. Then, when the doctor starts talking about 90 days, they start saying things like that, that’s where the fear comes in. My objective is when you’re owning your wellness, let’s have conversations that aren’t including that fear because none of us make good decisions when we’re in fear, flight, and fright mode. We just don’t.

Our amygdala makes the decision for us and that’s the really stupid part of our brain.

Exactly, and think about it, too. That’s why I said, “You know what? I am experiencing something that every single human is going to experience.” This is actually a funny story, you’ll crack up when you hear this. Again, diagnosed April 15th and I had a penalty from the IRS for my Global Women Foundation. I called, it was right when I’m diagnosed, and I’m talking to the IRS and I said, “I was diagnosed on April 15th, that’s got to stand for something for this nonprofit that I’ve been writing for the last 20 years.” Last week, I got a notice in the mail and they waived it, it went to zero, they waived the fee.

That’s great.

Isn’t that awesome? But I think, again, it’s what we’re talking about, death and taxes. When I talked with the IRS, we were laughing, it was an enjoyable conversation. Life does not have to be miserable. I think some of us are addicted as Joe Dispenza says. We’re addicted to that drama. Stop it, we don’t have to do that, we want to help. Sometimes we might be not explaining what our needs are.

Going through that, I was telling them death and taxes, “I’m experiencing what you’re going to experience, every single person on the planet is experiencing death,” and I thought, “You know what? I feel very blessed that I didn’t have a heart attack or the pinched nerve.” Really, I have time and that’s all we have is time. I get to choose how I want to show up to my family and friends. I get to choose what I want to do with this time that I have, and I choose to have an awesome time. I’m going to go out swinging and, lo and behold, I’m healing.

I really think the two go hand-in-hand in bringing it together as how are you showing up for yourself. Are you in the corner crying and rocking yourself to sleep? Which by the way, I did do that, I had three really good days. One day, I didn’t even get out of bed. I literally stayed in bed and just with my dog, Mr. Big, and that was it. I kept the covers on my head and it was just sorting through this. Give yourself that time to grieve, give yourself that time to heal and go through those emotions.

But outside of that, it’s been like, “You know what? I’ve got this new lease on life and I’m loving it. I am loving it. What makes me even more excited is that I get to go in and share how I’m doing this. I also get to learn from others what is it that they’re doing.” That’s how medicine gets socialized, is that we get around our community and we come together in a cycle, who’s doing what? Where should I go to? There are oxygen tanks, there’s so much out there that you’re able to go ahead and include in your daily routine. That is helping me heal.

Like hyperbaric oxygen?

Exactly. That’s the next piece. I’m really going out really looking at different conferences and different spas. I’m really researching going out there trying it out and vetting it, “Is this just a really pricey health procedure or is this something that works? Oh, let me add this one in there. This is with stuff that doesn’t cost money.” That’s the other thing, too, is that we’re not hearing about a lot of stuff because there’s no money in it, and that’s a problem when you’re trying to heal. That’s a big problem. Stuff like intermittent fasting or fasting.

When I left the hospital, my whole family wanted to go to the Cheesecake Factory. I’m looking at the menu and there was nothing I could eat. I have to go organic, you have to have all of this stuff, and so I ordered water and I ended up going on a water fast the first 15 days. That worked wonders when I talked to all these different doctors who said, “Michelle, you were able to get your body into ketosis. You took out sugar right away.” I think that’s a lot of the reason why I feel so good. But that doesn’t cost anything and you’re not going to see a lot of people out there marketing. There are some folks that are doing some good work and talking about something that doesn’t cost anything, but they’re telling you how to do it. It’s just a matter of finding those things that are out there and trusting who you’re going to talk to about getting that.

Some of these things are really off the beaten path. You’re going to have a hard time finding out about these things in just normal conversation about, like what are your options. Talking to an oncologist, for example, you’ll get all the allopathic options, which there aren’t very many, and that’s pretty much about it. If you talk to somebody who’s into biohacking, you might get intermittent fasting. I had a great interview with Dave Asprey, a very good episode.

When you're diagnosed with cancer, you have this mindset of you only want to show up your complete, authentic self because life is too short. Share on X

Oh, I love that. In fact, your Bulletproof Coffee, one of his friends is one of my advisors on my wellness team family and we were just talking about him actually. What’s interesting is this particular person is helping me but he’s like, “You can’t say anything,” because they worry about losing their license or they worry about any time you hear stuff around cancer because it is such a big business. It’s like $90 billion industry, people get nervous. Practitioners lose license if they’re not recommending the standard western medicine protocols. That’s probably what surprised me the most. I think I’ve been just really taken back is how many people are helping me but are not comfortable with being public about it because they don’t want to have the ramifications. That’s crazy to me. It’s really sad.

One of my past guests, he told me he can’t really talk about 5G. I have had episodes on the show, a couple of them talking about EMF exposure and the health implications of that. Somebody, I’m not going to name who told me that he was threatened by some very big corporations and their legal departments if he continued talking against 5G and the health impacts of it.

I’m going to say this to you is completely not surprised and it’s happening daily. I’m hearing that comment back, and that’s my mama bear coming out and saying, “You know what? Enough.” People are losing their lives because we’re not able to share this information and it’s like a tsunami that’s happening. You can’t stop this age of information coming out, you can’t stop people from talking, and that’s what’s happening. I feel like a few years from now, my plan on being a big proponent of just, “Let’s have a candid conversation. Let’s really talk about what’s working out. Let’s not be in fear anymore because we’re killing ourselves. We’re not protecting our families by being in fear. We’re not.”

For sure. Now a couple of other resources that I think might be relevant to you, Michelle, and to our listeners who are looking to go on their own wellness journey, whether they’re sick or just wanting to improve their lives, performance, and what-have-you, one is Donny Epstein. He’s the creator of Network Chiropractic and he is an energy healer. He’s a wizard and he’s phenomenal. There aren’t words to describe how powerful this guy is. He is like an alien. I’ve had him on the show. He’s just beyond words. Just go check out the Donny Epstein episode.

I am. Donny Epstein. He sounds absolutely brilliant.

He’s good friends with Tony Robbins and works on Tony at some of his events to help him to stay energized and be able to do these 20-hour marathons onstage. It’s pretty incredible. He does this entrainment thing with this energy thing that you lay on a chiropractic table. He doesn’t even touch you and your body reacts. You see people who are getting this and you think, “How did they know that that he just pointed at a certain part of your back and then you respond? Your face is down, you’re not even able to see what he’s doing, and he’s not touching you, “Am I being punked here? This is totally bizarre.” I remember the first time I saw this in action thinking, “This can’t be real.” It was too out there, but it is so real.

Oh, I’ve seen it. I know exactly what you’re referring to. It actually freaks you out a little bit because you watch it. Dr. Whelan, who’s in Orange County is somebody that also has done energy work on me as a chiropractor and gone through that. I did see it when I was at Joe Dispenza’s event where energy is just going through the body. You look at somebody and it looks like they’re having convulsions, but they’re really having this energy go through their body. I felt it. It’s crazy stuff that they do.

I had a spiritual epiphany in this incredible thing, it’s a miracle happened while I was in this blissed-out state after entrainment. You’re just in another world, you get lifted off of the chiropractic table and set on the floor, on the carpet, and who knows how long you’re out? It could be an hour, it could be 20 minutes, or whatever and you have no concept of time and I had this incredible experience. I go into it in the episode with Donny, so listener, definitely check that out.

Oh, definitely. I’m going to check that, it sounds fascinating. In fact, one of the meditation—several of them—we started at [4:00] AM and we finished. I could swear, it was like 5 minutes later, 10 minutes later and it was [8:30] in the morning, I was like, “How is that even possible?” I definitely did not fall asleep, my body was asleep, but my mind, it was just really alert. It was such a cool thing. Then when you drop into it, I get done with meditation, I feel I’ve had a good 10 hours of sleep, it feels wonderful.

So rejuvenating, refreshing, and resetting. It’s really powerful. I don’t meditate a lot. I do a little meditation in the morning as part of my morning ritual to start my day. I do a morning connection. In Kabbalah, it’s called the Ana b’Koach prayer and that helps me to connect and be more mindful about how I spend my day and how I show up for people. I also have done really extensive meditations; I did the 40 Years of Zen week, that’s one of Dave Asprey’s companies where you’re in these pods getting neurofeedback, and then you do these augmented reset processes, ARPs. That’s a whole other thing that I could talk about, but I’ll just direct you to the episode with Chris Keane at length about 40 Years of Zen. That’s really incredible. 

He’s the CTO of 40 Years of Zen, one of Dave Asprey’s companies. I had memories unlocked from that experience that I hadn’t thought of or recalled for 40 years. That’s wild.

Wow, that’s what I feel like with psychedelics. I feel like there’s some other stuff out there. That’s phenomenal too because that you’re doing by yourself. You’re able to go ahead and really tap into that.

Yeah, you don’t need any kind of mind-altering substances to have a spiritual awakening or some sort of powerful epiphany or transformational experience, which leads me to my next suggestion which is a Diksha. It’s a oneness blessing and that’s been known to heal people, just getting touched on the forehead by a oneness monk or somebody who’s been taught how to give a Diksha which I did learn in India. I received a Diksha in India. I’ve received multiple Dikshas but there’s this one where this very powerful and spiritual monk touched me and I had this experience where I felt so connected to the creator. 

My whole lifetime of being agnostic, almost atheistic just melted away and I felt so connected to the creator. I remember going outside right after that and everything was technicolor green like a cartoon. It was crazy. It was like I was on some LSD trip but I don’t know what’s that like because I’ve never done it. I just knew that the door had been opened, that now I was one with the creator. 

Then, I started ordering up miracles one after another, including Orion. I asked for her to show up right away and asked that of the creator. 12 hours later, we were mutually introduced. 

I’m so happy for you two. Both of you, what a match. You bring up a really good point. Unless we share what we want, how is anybody supposed to know? How is the universe supposed to know? That’s what happens; people get frustrated and they go through life and they don’t really know exactly what fills them up, what puts them in that state of just I am on purpose with my life. Right now, I feel like I’m doing exactly what I’m supposed to do. It fills me up. 

I was a culprit of this, I would discount what I wanted and I would put others first. There’s nobody that’s going to be able to be an advocate and speak on my behalf of what it is that I want to achieve. That’s when a true collaboration comes together and people are able to come together.

I had a conversation recently and somebody was talking to me about me doing a project and they were talking about their vision and their ideas. I was trying to explain this is my dream. We need to have these roads meet, but I’m not going to drop my dream to fulfill your dream when we’re not working collectively together. Really, I thought you know what, suck it up and go along, I didn’t want to hurt their feelings, I wanted them to like me, all of that. All those, from 0 to 19, those triggers that come into play.

I’ve been doing the work, I probably sound really positive but it’s not because I walk out of bed and took some cannabis. By the way, my cannabis, I have no high factor. I actually probably miss that a little bit. There is no high factor. For me, going in and really revisiting what stories I had placed on just some childhood traumas, stigmas, whatever that was. I had been playing these same programs over and over. One of which was getting me into situations where I was in over my head and I felt like I had to be that way because that’s how I had to be when I was seven. I put myself as head of the house, taking care of my family when my parents were going through a rough time, and I had these seven brothers and sisters that I was watching after.

You kind of go through and then you realize I’m adding that pain into my life. I get to co-create with our creator on what it is that I want to be. Again, I think the biggest thing in your healing, and again same process applies to your relationships, your romance, your finances, is what do you want. Then, you go in with that thought. You then have that thought turn into the feeling. 

I’ve always been known to go into situations where the mindset was act as if, fake it till you make it. That’s all great, but what’s that next step of actually really feeling it? I would say those things and I would think it, but I wasn’t actually feeling it. When you’re not feeling it, then you’re communicating. In my case, I was communicating to my body and I didn’t really believe it. I wasn’t really feeling it. I was saying it but I wasn’t feeling it. Putting myself and being my best friend and being my advocate.

There’s this expression, thoughts into things. Thoughts turn into things. There’s this intermediary step that you got to remember, thoughts turn into feelings as you say, and then into things. If you don’t feel it, then your emotional brain, which is the one that really manifests things and not our logical brain, that just backs up our emotional decisions trying to make it make sense to us. If you want to turn thoughts into things, you have to have the feeling to go with it before the thing happens, before it manifests. You don’t wait until you get the million dollars and now you’re happy, you are happy as if you had the million dollars already, and then the million dollars will come. 

Exactly, bingo. I said this a third time, but that’s exactly how it correlates to wellness, finances. If you don’t feel it, if you’re not really believing it… I know without a shadow of a doubt, I was going to rock this thing, I was going to heal, and I was going to have a blast through this process. I was going to be the caregiver and oversight of what thoughts were coming into my space. That’s probably the hardest thing I was able to see all these years, putting on the caliber. 

You have these conferences and doing all these things, I was really able to put this into action. When you go into all these doctor’s appointments, they tell you, I would tell them this is my plan, I’m going to do a cannabis protocol, I’m going to do meditation, I’ve got my diet change. Literally saying to me go ahead, I’m literally recording the conversation. Oh yeah, get this on tape. Saying to me if you do that, then you don’t start a chemo treatment, in 90 days you will be dead. Who talks like that?

It’s like from a conversation from that first, my body is different than other bodies. Not one size fits all. I need more information than that. I want somebody to personalize a program, a wellness program for me. When I found out that there was nothing out there, I was like, “I’m going to personalize a program for me and then I’m going to help women because I think they can help their family. Help women to be able to personalize this plan for themselves.”

Again, what we talked about, that could work, every single one of those pieces could have worked for me. Or, somebody has another plan and that’s where if we start sharing this information and we help each other recognize, we get to own this. This is our god-given gift, being on the planet. There’s nobody else out there that’s in my situation that can make the decision for me about what’s good for me to do this. 

I’ll share this one with you, the big a-ha moment for me, and I’m totally curious to hear your opinion on this. My big a-ha moment was this plus one factor, and not doing it by myself. Again, Type A personality, total perfectionist, really hard time with any type of critiquing because I always sought out to do things perfectly. I had this mindset of I could do it on my own and I don’t need any help. That’s a really lonely place to be as an entrepreneur. 

With my last conference, that really added some years onto my life, stress. I had two conversations with Trump right before the election because their office was wanting to figure out how to get him to the events, we were given an award to the women who organized the Women’s March. It was like unless both candidates are present, we’re not doing that. It was a high-level of stress. I look back and I think you know what, never again am I going to do that where I go at this without my plus one mindset and my wellness family. 

I started looking at who in my life… You have yourself, out of the eight billion people I was born in this body, that’s got to mean something, that I’m the advocate for me. Then, I started thinking about my husband who I’ve been married to for 22 years, together almost a quarter of a century. I thought you know what, I can’t have multiple husbands, I have one. Am I showing up in the best possible way to express to him what my needs are, and then also to express to him what his needs are? And that we are going through this life together, supporting one another, to help meet each other’s needs. Having conversations, the same principle applies to wellness but having conversations where you don’t have the stigmas, and the fear. You just have honest, you’re operating in the present time, you’re not bringing up old baggage, old childhood woes. It’s an authentic conversation. 

We went through imago…

 

Getting The Love You Want. Harville Hendrix has been on the show, that was one of my favorite episodes of all time. 

Once we had him on the show, then Orion and I started doing the daily appreciations every night because if Harville and Helen can do it every night for 18 years without missing a day, we can certainly do it too. 

See that, that’s what I’m talking about. You get to create your wellness journey. You get to create your own wellness sabbatical, your own. That’s an important part of your daily routine. It fills you up, it lifts you up. It creates that safe space. When you have that safe space, healing happens, you make good decisions, finances, all of that kind of stuff.

You’re in the vortex, to use Abraham Hicks’ terminology. 

You’re in the vortex. I started to look at that and look at other relationships. My business partner Kim Kovacs who has this ability and this genius to put together systems and create amazing things. My strength and my gifts are creating community and being able to go ahead and share information and connect the dots, I’m a great connector. Us working together, it was so great because I don’t want to be dealing with spreadsheets. That doesn’t fill me up, I hate it. 

I want to stay in my lane, I want to do my genius. Right now, I can’t tell the difference between working and playing. As I’m on my wellness sabbatical, it was like, do not do that, because this for me, this is what fills me up. It was starting to have those really examining the relationships that make up my wellness team family. Had I really gotten to having these really authentic conversations?

I’ll tell you another one. As the chief experience officer of the companies that I have, this is what lights me up, to create these experiences and then to be able to share and find out from others what worked for them, what did they add to it, how did they make it their own, and how did they create it. One of the things I did was I was invited—this is part of my healing process—by my friend Jake Villanueva up to his family’s cabin, they’ve been going for 40 years. I asked my mom and my dad to do a road trip with me. 

I didn’t want any kids, I didn’t want my husband, I didn’t want anybody, no siblings, I just wanted my mom, my dad, and me. 12 hours in a car, and literally if you ask my mom and my dad, my parents, you ask them did all three of us say that that was one of the top five experiences of our life. That’s including giving birth to our kids, getting married to our loved ones–my parents just celebrated 52 years of marriage. 

I created this road trip with my mom and my dad. I started out with all the questions, I had a very good friend Deborah help me who was working with the Shakra Center. She helped me put my questions together. The first question I had was okay mom and dad, tell me about the day I was born. Tell me what happened, what was that like. It was the coolest experience just to be able to hear from my mom, my dad, just growing up and the funny things that I did. What I was doing, Stephan, was I was creating new experiences. I was creating these memories, new stories, new things, magic moments. I have a new relationship with my mom and my dad, I have a really good relationship with them before but this, it’s gone to a new level of just nobody else on the planet is going to be my mom and my dad, and I have both my parents there. 

I’m wondering how many people are out there. Don’t wait to have a wake-up call. Don’t wait to organize a road trip with your mom and your dad. It’s like we have the opportunity to do that, the only person that can make those decisions is you, and you have the opportunity to create whatever experience that you want. Lo and behold, it sets right into healing. It really fills the gap.

Amazing. That reminds me that Brendon Burchard posted a set of questions to his blog of interview questions to ask your parents. I actually did that with my dad.

You did, awesome. Brendon does a really good thing. He’s done some great work. All the people that you’re naming off, I’m happy to be included on your podcast because I really enjoy the work that you’re doing. I also think it’s getting out the information that we all can share with each other. If you’re feeling good, it doesn’t detract from me feeling good, we all feel good. All of us get to go there. I wasn’t realizing the value of me being really candid. 

Now, people ask me what do you mean, how can I help. I want to help, and I tell them. Hey, take me to lunch. Make me my favorite soup every two weeks. A big batch of this really good soup. My best friends, they’re drop off a UV sauna. Who does that? Unless we’re able to be just open. I told my son who’s 20, he came in and it was one of those days when I was in bed. He could tell, he was a little frustrated because I didn’t want to get out of bed, I was upset, I was bummed out. He comes in and I look at him, coming from his perspective of let’s share what we need, that’s how we heal. We heal ourselves but I think we heal through each other. 

I said to him, “Chase, can I have a hug?” He said something and I’m like, “No, I want a heart to heart, one of those really deep heart to heart hugs.” He gets up in bed, and there we are, nobody’s saying anything, and he’s just loving on his mom and I’m loving on him. You know when you have that feeling—I know you know this because with your family—but that feeling of total bliss where you just sink and this feels so good, that’s how it was. I don’t have to have it all figured out, in fact, nobody has it all figured out, all I have to do is just show up and play to my strength, play to my genius, and just be. Life has gotten a whole lot better and just fun showing up that way. 

Amazing. I think this underlines the importance of focusing on the miracles of what you already have on the abundance that you have, regardless of what challenges you’re facing, to focus on what you want and the bigger picture, and not on what you don’t want. You’re not self-sabotaging by thinking about what you want and what you don’t want at the same time and splitting your attention to something that you’re actually, inevitably attracting to yourself because you’re so worried about it.

I learned this from Orion, she told me that worry is praying for what you don’t want.

Exactly. I love that. That’s actually beautiful. That’s a great quote.

I guess we need to wrap, but thank you so, so much for just being so open and authentic, transparent, vulnerable with me and with my listeners, sharing your journey, and the research that you did, the epiphanies that you’ve had. This was just a light revealing episode. You are a gift to humanity.

The feeling is mutual, and I do appreciate it. I felt a little bad dropping the bomb on you earlier. It was like oh by the way…

I just learned right before we started the recording, so that was…

You’re a trooper. I was like alright, he got this. It isn’t easy too because people, their initial response is they go into a place of feeling fear and then they’re looking at their own immortality, and then they’re trying to make sense because they’re looking at me. You were very compassionate but also you could totally tell, we mean business. Let’s get this information out there so that people could feel good, and heal, and go through life joyfully. We’re not supposed to be in pain and hurting. Again, I’m experiencing everything that all of us are going to experience, so why not enjoy the ride? Why not get super connected with your family and just really be on purpose for what it is that you want to do. Life is really cool when you do that. Thank you for having me on, I can be found at Michelle Patterson Live for my public page, and I can’t wait to have you on the show, and definitely your wife because I love the stuff you guys are up to. Let’s continue to play together.

You have the power to create your own journey, your own healing, and your own safe space. If cannabis is helping you, by all means, proceed with it. Share on X

Awesome, for sure. Do you have a website that you want to direct our listeners to?

Yeah, I’ve come out of the cannabis closet and come out of this wellness healing. For the month of October, it’s breast cancer awareness month, it’s also focusing on women. It’s a really good time, so we’re putting this together. If you go to Michelle Patterson Live, the public page, you can follow me there. We have the podcast, and we’re putting up the website. You can definitely track me down.

Thank you so much, Michelle. 

Thank you, Stephan. I look forward to connecting with you guys.

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