Cutting-Edge Methods for Trauma Recovery and Peak Performance with Mike Zeller

In this Episode

• • [02:20]Mike Zeller delves into trauma and mental health after losing a million dollars and enduring a two-and-a-half-year battle with depression alongside his wife, who is a three-time suicide survivor.
  • [11:32]Mike discusses his experience with NAD supplements, highlighting increased energy and enhanced athletic performance without pain or inflammation.
  • [22:11]Stephan and Mike explore the distinction between NAD and NMN, noting that NMN is converted into NAD within the cell nuclei.
  • [24:22]Stephan’s supplement stack comprises 15-18 different supplements, reduced from a higher number based on intuition and muscle testing.
  • [28:26]Mike recounts his personal growth journey through consciousness-expanding supplements and plant medicine, which allowed him to connect with his heart on a deeper level.
  • [34:40]Mike reveals his morning ritual for entering a flow state, which involves waking up early, priming his body, and pushing himself 10% beyond his comfort zone.
  • [41:47]Mike reflects on his experience with breathwork and its transformative impact on both his life and business.

Jump to Links and Resources

Mike, it’s so great to have you on the show.

Stephan, it’s my pleasure. I realized how freaking long my bio is. I should have given you a shorter one, but thanks for eating that long.

Let’s talk about what happened, losing a million dollars, and how that ended up being a gift.

What did our old mentor, Tony Robbins, say about pain? He calls it a gift from above or something along those lines. I went through a season where I had five or six things. In entrepreneurship and business, you place many bets and expect some to work out.

I learned a ton about trauma, mental health, and just how honestly fragile all of us are to some extent. I have so much more empathy now.

I had a season where nothing was working out. Then, my main cash cow business and my real estate business disintegrated. I had a real estate investment that went really bad. I lost 250 grand on that. That created just basically a perfect storm of implosion in a way that you don’t really expect, but you get wiser from those implosions. 

I lost a million bucks in about 12 to 18 months and had to reset everything ultimately. Right after that, by the time I got my head above water, reasonably so, my wife got pregnant, and that began a two-and-a-half-year depression battle and mental health battle. She’s a three-time suicide survivor; she got triggered by a lot of childhood trauma; we’re in a much deeper fight than losing a million bucks. That was a brutal season, but I learned a ton about trauma, mental health, and just how honestly fragile all of us are to some extent. I have so much more empathy now.

What did you learn about trauma that you didn’t already know that might surprise our listener?

I’m a master NLP practitioner, and I’ve done a lot of deep mindset work and helped rewire many people around their mindset. But one of the things that happens for someone that’s truly severely trauma affected is those memories are almost stored in your body. That’s why they call it PTSD (Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder), where this thing happens and activates in a sensory way, a non-conscious response. 

My wife, for example, our daughter would cry, which is normal for a baby to cry. If she cried longer than 15 or 30 seconds, it would start triggering my wife’s nervous system back to her traumatic childhood. It’s been for two and a half years, basically both in pregnancy. Pregnancy was also traumatic for her. She had a really rough pregnancy, but also all these traumas and fears of her sense of overwhelm. She was the oldest of eleven kids, had a very abusive upbringing, and all this pain that we thought she had cleared. 

But honestly, it came roaring back, and I had to realize this is not as simple as just having a positive mindset. This is like a deep nervous system reset that is needed. We could have done SSRIs, but if you look at the research, they help people temporarily, and they help people cope, but they don’t help people heal. We were very interested in getting healing and trying a lot of different approaches, from Neurofeedback and NAD IV, both of which were very helpful for healing—somatic psychotherapy. 

But the biggest kicker was Psychedelic-Assisted Therapy because her neurowiring basically needed a massive reset, and we needed to flood her brain with neuroplasticity. According to psychedelic research, when you’re on a lot of these substances, the psychedelics done safely and wisely in a safe container doubles your neuroplasticity from anywhere from 2 to 14 days, which allows us to repattern or reprogram a lot of these subconscious triggers.

Tell us how this came about. How did you discover it? How did it get implemented? Did you guys have to go out of the country to somewhere where psychedelics are considered legal? Tell us more.

I’ll mention she started somatic psychotherapy heavily influenced by Dr. Peter Levine’s work, Healing Trauma, which is the first book I read on trauma. He started that in January 2022, which made a huge difference in knowing how to manage and navigate, but then it just wasn’t enough. She was still aware of moving, just such deep work. Then we did neurofeedback. That seemed to help her anxiety. Her anxiety dropped. NAD gave her their mental energy, physical energy and vitality back. In the fall of 2022, we realized she just keeps getting triggered into a cascading spiral of depression when our daughter cries, which is pretty normal for a toddler, as you well know.

I started really realizing this is complex PTSD because I listen to about 100 podcasts on mental health and trauma and read a dozen books or so in a short period. We found a therapist who’s willing to, off the books, do a psychedelic-assisted therapy session in the States. I won’t say where, but that therapist was amazing, and it was a five-hour therapy session just as a framework.

Your nervous system was programmed from your childhood.

The day before we did the session, our daughter cried for like a couple of minutes, and my wife then went into a depression spiral for the next 4 hours, literally crying on the basement steps for 2 hours, coming up basically in a depression funk for another 2 hours and even a cloud the next day. Well, then the next day, we do this session, and it’s 5 hours long.

One day after that session, our daughter has an 18-minute temper tantrum meltdown, just ballistic, just insane. My wife is able to laugh. She has that cognitive disassociation. It doesn’t trigger her nervous system. I like to say it’s not necessarily your fault, but it is your responsibility. Your nervous system, her nervous system, was programmed from her childhood. She couldn’t control that. Help her get it better, help it get reprogrammed.

Since then, we’ve been able to start functioning normally again. There’s still a little bit of PTSD we’re clearing out. We’re going to do another academy-assisted this round, which is legal in Tennessee, so we’re going to do that Ketamine-Assisted Therapy Session, and I expect that our complex PTSD is incurable, according to APA. I don’t believe it, based on my anecdotal evidence. She claims she’s cured of depression. I would say so, too. And the PTSD? We’re pretty darn close to having that 100% taken care of, too.

Wow. Amazing. What was the first psychedelic?

Psilocybin—which should be legalized across the federal government in the states by the end of next year.

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Where did the NAD fit into the picture, and what is it for our listener who is not familiar with it?

NAD is the core foundational molecule used in 500 cellular processes, but it also acts as a neurotransmitter. Basically, everything your body does uses NAD as its primary fuel source. This is why it is so important for mental health and peak performance. I’m always approaching peak performance through the lens of trauma and then recognizing that trauma can be a peak performance blocker.

Your brain is 3% of your body weight but uses 20% to 25% of your body’s energy. If you are operating a deficit, which if you are over the age of 30 in America, you are guaranteed almost based on 20,000 NAD tests that we’ve done, very rarely is someone who is not supplementing with NAD boosting supplement, like in our NMN or our special blend that is arguably the most effective. 

Your NAD levels are deficient, so your brain energy will be deficient because NAD is the primary fuel source, and it goes down as we age, like stem cells, like all the other things. That’s why when we’re 50, we typically don’t have the vibrancy and the physical stamina we had to run long distances to jump high and far or whatever. Our muscle recovery is harder as we age. If you boost it back up, I’ll be back at the healthy levels of a twelve-year-old. 

Last night, I played over an hour of full-court basketball—no pain, inflammation, or real soreness, and I could play another hour or two. I played as many as 3 hours of full-court basketball as a 44-year-old. In my thirties, that would have been really hard. I would have had to take a nap and take some ibuprofen. Now, I don’t need any of that, and I feel great.

By the way, I looked it up: Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide.

I literally took the product for which I’m a big evangelist, but I don’t always remember how to say the scientific name.

Some people take NAD IV. Others will take some sort of supplement. How do you take it?

I believe from the research. The founder of the company that MCMO is for, Dr. John Shea, is one of the foremost experts in the world at NAD. He’s also a scientific researcher who found the type one diabetes gene. He’s been studying human diseases and longevity for 40 years. However, in his research, along with other research out there, NAD IV does not increase intracellular NAD, meaning the inside of your cell nuclei. NAD IV, the molecule is just too big for it to get into the inside of your cell, but it does increase your cellular plasma. 

That’s why many people battle anxiety, fatigue, depression, and addiction. It’s very helpful for almost resetting your neurotransmitters and doing it in a really quick fashion because you will notice the effects afterward. We initially only did NAD IV, but then, as I learned more about how important it is to do the intracellular, I took a little white powder from Jinfiniti.

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It’s called a vitality boost, and I take it twice a day. Now, my levels have tripled from where they started. I don’t need the IV anymore. I have the same effect without the IV for about one-fifth of the cost of what I was doing every month. It’s arguably more important for the intracellular for your aging to slow aging. If you look at the 13 hallmarks of aging and everything from metabolic dysfunction to telomere shortening, many other things are glycation directly related to NAD deficiency.

Did you discover Jinfiniti and start taking their supplement? Did you become their CMO, or did you take some other NAD supplement, end up being their CMO, and then start theirs? How did that work?

I took three different products as a supplement before finding out about Jinfiniti. I was taking a brand called Tru Niagen, which did really well, too. They’re the most well-known, probably where they open up the marketplace. It’s a good product. Then I took Novos Labs, another good product that is well-marketed and well-branded. They have a pure NMN that’s quite good. I also took just a pure supplement, which is totally worthless. It doesn’t work because the molecule is too big to pass the gut or cell barriers. I had an IV clinic, and we were focused on doing NAD IV.

Then, a friend told me about Jinfiniti and how you could test before and after. I was like, “Oh, that’s really cool.” They had the only test on the market. I quickly called the company to learn more about it and ended up talking to the founder, who told me about their supplement. I ordered a bunch of them, and I loved it, and our clients loved it. I ended up shutting this IV company down about six months later. I reached out—he’s a scientist—and I was like, “Hey, you can use a little help with your marketing, and jumped right in.”  He said, “Yes, we need some help.” I jumped in, and we’ve grown tremendously since. It’s truly a great product.

I bought $10,000 worth of it for my IV clinic before becoming the marketing director of MCMO. I was already an evangelist for it beforehand because of how great it made people feel.

That’s cool. That reminds me of that old Remington commercial. Remember that guy? I love the product so much about the company.

Exactly. Social proof.

What would be a typical kind of investment in the Jinfiniti supplements? Because our typical listeners are not going to want to spend $10,000, of course. Not that they need to. You bought that for your clinic. But Tru Niagen is not inexpensive as far as supplements go. I’m curious about the investment for Jinfiniti.

A monthly supply. If you do, the monthly subscription is $118. It’s pretty equivalent to the other big brands out there—Elysium Health, Trinidad, Novos Labs, DoNotAge, etc. The main difference, though, that you’ll see is that most of the brands are Tru Niagen being one, as well as a lot of the others. We’ve tested 20,000 people. We’ve tested people on all the other brands and their supplements. They’ll even claim themselves. I think Elysium says on their website that they improve NAD levels by 40%.

Well, that’s great. Their products work, but what we typically see with our products is people improve their NAD levels anywhere from 200% to 400%. I can think of three to four cases right now of people I work with and/or friends who have taken the product and the test, and we’ve seen their levels zoom up. I’ve personally felt it was my energy. I noticed a marginal improvement with some of the other products, but I noticed a massive improvement with ours and the energy, the stamina, the mental clarity, metabolic function where I’ve burned belly fat that I was carrying, you know, just got older and my metabolism wasn’t as great. It felt like my metabolism is now like I’m a teenager again, and it feels great.

The kind of tests that show NAD levels intracellularly, how many are there? Is it just yours? If I were to go to a typical holistic doctor, I don’t know, concierge medicine type establishment, would they be testing intracellular NAD?

Currently, we’re the only test on the market for NAD. The only tests we know of in the world probably won’t be that way forever. I would imagine that in the next year or two, there’s going to be a few other tests rolling out. However, Dr. Shea is a brilliant medical researcher who developed advanced biomarker tests for massive companies before creating Jinfiniti. We’ve got some intellectual capital in the sense of innovation that few companies have. 

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We also test for cellular senescence and oxidative stress, which are key hallmarks of aging. No one else tests for in the world currently. Frankly, we test some of the biggest names in both sports and health and wellness. I can’t fully say all their names offline, but I can tell you.

There’s somebody who’s going to be dropping a promotion or not a promotional video, but they’re going to be talking about Jinfiniti on their YouTube channel today. So by the time this airs, that’ll be old news. But are you allowed to tell who that person is?

He’s a big men’s health and wellness influencer. He’s also in fashion. His name is Jose Zuniga, teaching men’s fashion. It is his YouTube channel. I think he’s 37. We moved his NAD levels up on his intracellular from 32.1 to 83.9. It was a 259% increase in 28 days. He feels it. He’s like, “Wow, I’ll feel like I’m 16 again.” We typically see that people are blown away by the results. Usually, in two to four weeks, we see the difference.

What else is part of your biohacking stack for longevity and performance, being in the flow state, and all that stuff?

Another big one. Surprisingly, creatine. A little-known fact about creatine is it acts as a battery pack for energy, especially mental energy. When you boost up with creatine, like in our Jinfiniti blend, one of our extra ingredients is not just NMN but also creatine ribose and niacinamide, which cause it. What’s different about that versus NR and NMN is it causes the repair cycle of your NAD, the salvage pathway, to be boosted back up.

That’s why our levels are dramatically better than those of other companies. We also hit the salvage pathway versus pure NR, and pure NMN just doesn’t do that. But creatine is a massive value-added supplement. I also started taking another product called Fatty15, which is new.

I take that, too.

Good marketing. I met the co-founder at this big A4M Conference. That’s a phenomenal product. MitoQ is another cool one for mitochondria. When you boost your NAD because NAD is the primary fuel source for mitochondria, I may not need the MitoQ, but I want to take anything that optimizes mitochondria.

Have you heard of Mitopure?

Mitopure is terrific, too. Do you take that one?

No. At the same conference, I met the founder or co-founder of Fatty15, which was Dave Asprey’s Biohacking Conference. The Mitopure folks were speaking, too, and I was really impressed with their stuff. I ended up getting a subscription to Fatty15. You could spend thousands of dollars just to go to one of those biohacking conferences, and it’s like going to the grocery store hungry.

It’s true. It’s so tempting. You’re like, “Wow, this is so good.” And you want to come home with a polar plunge, and you want to come home with an ozone spa and all the things.

What does MitoCure do?

MitoCure is similar to Mitopure, which boosts your mitochondrial function. A little-known fact about mitochondria is that exercise is the only thing that causes your mitochondria to duplicate. It’s also hard for your mitochondria to function fully and healthy without exercise. That’s something to bear in mind. That’s from Dr. Robert Lustig’s book Metabolical, which is phenomenal and one of the top three health books I’ve read. I take 1000 milligrams of EPA fatty acids, which is phenomenal for brain and mental health. 

According to Huberman, that is the equivalent of an SSRI for about 60% of the population, according to the research he’s seen. Perfect amino because most of us don’t have sufficient levels of amino acids. It’s from body health. It’s a really good blend and a few other things, but those are the main things that take on a pretty significant daily basis.

You mentioned NMN. That stands for nicotinamide mononucleotide.

As a little kid, I’ll just tell you this. I had to take speech classes when I was seven or eight years old. Those really big scientific words, even in high school and college, I knew what they were. I just had trouble saying them. My brain would get a little spun sideways. I just have trouble remembering the giant scientific or the bigger scientific words.

It’s like performance anxiety, right? I’m getting all nervous anytime a big scientific word comes. What’s the difference between NAD and NMN, and why both?

Most of us don’t have sufficient levels of amino acids.

If you look at the precursor cycle. Let’s go all the way back to vitamin B3 in the cycle; in many cases, Nr doesn’t always become nR, but then Nr will become NMN, and NMN will become and once it’s inside the cell of the nuclei. If you take the further back you go, the less likely it is to convert all the way to middlemen. If I take NAD as a molecule orally, it won’t pass the cell membrane. Your body actually has to break it down for it to get. So, it almost has to be taken apart before it goes into your cell nuclei. That’s why taking the NAD orally is a waste. 

But then NMN and NR are usually pretty good products. Now, what we do differently is because the unique blend and the unique percentage or ratio of the blend, what we found in the research, causes the repair cycle, which basically boosts up your NAD levels, intracellular NAD levels, much higher than the average product. If you tried Tru Niagen, compare the vitality boost for two weeks on Jinfiniti. You’ll likely notice a night and day difference in your energy, mental clarity, and stamina, and you’ll be like, “Okay, this is really working.”

All right, I’ll give that a go. I’m a willing biohacker. I like to experiment. As you already know from a few minutes ago, I take Tru Niagen daily. I take Fatty15 daily. I actually take double the suggested amount of Fatty15. I just have an intuitive sense of doing that. I can’t say I had any medical guidance to do that. I also take HyperTest and MyoDex, which are from Axis Labs. 

I’ve been taking that for well over a decade. It really boosts testosterone levels. The founder of Axis Labs is Chris Gatchis. He was actually a guest, one of my very early guests on this podcast, and he was amazing. 2016 or 2015, even. That’s been a game changer because I have really high testosterone levels for my age and have had pretty much the last decade. 

I take EpiCor, which is a secret weapon right there. When my wife and son are sick, I usually don’t get sick; I knock on wood. They don’t take EpiCor, although I really want them to. EpiCor is a really great prebiotic that helps boost your immune system. Magnesium Breakthrough—I take the seven types of magnesium in it. I take spermadine.

I take spermadine, too. I love that one as well.

I don’t have my whole stack here in front of me. I probably take about 15 or 18 different supplements a day. I don’t talk about it much, so it doesn’t roll off the tongue. I used to take more than double that. Through my intuition and muscle testing, I figured I was overdoing it and didn’t need a lot of that stuff. I dropped a lot of that. 

I take Beam Minerals. It has a really great mineral combo of two different things: a micro boost and an electrolyze. I take that every day. I also take ASEA, a liquid that tastes like soapy water. It’s not exactly delicious, but it helps with redox cell signaling. I know people have had huge breakthroughs from taking that. Those are just some examples of things I take.

We all battle some level of trauma that can be stuck in us.

I love it. I’m adding a couple of those to my Amazon cart right now, so trust your judgment. You’re a savvy guy at this, for sure.

Thank you. Another prebiotic I take is Hyperbiotics, which is like a green-label powder I put in my smoothie. 

Prebiotics are really good, but most people underutilize them. They focus too much on probiotics when we need more prebiotics.

Thanks for sharing and for putting me on the spot to share, too. Looking back on all this, what would be the biggest gift, lesson or epiphany from this whole journey of increasing your performance and longevity and helping your wife with her mental health and neuroplasticity? What just pops up for you that you want to share?

The first thing is that we all battle some level of trauma that can be stuck in us. The level it’s stuck in us. It’s literally like a bag of bricks that you’re carrying around. The metaphor I’ve used a lot, too, is if you’re carrying around a lot of these bags of bricks, you feel way down, and you don’t even know what it means to feel lighter energetically. My wife and I both feel so much lighter that we’ve done some of this trauma-clearing and deep work, and I got some PTSD from just the ad whole scenario that we battled. 

It’s hard to see the clarity of thought, the clarity of potential, and the joy you can have when carrying some stuff you’re also comfortable with. Many of us go through life our whole lives just comfortable with this negative weight, and sometimes we see it in people’s lives where it’s almost like a cloud has been hanging over them energetically or vibrationally. But they’re supposed to be filled with light, right? I see it at my retreats, my rewired retreats, where we do certain plant medicines, and we do some NLP and some breath work and meditation, and people will literally enter the weekend feeling heavy and looking heavy.

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After the first night, they got a sparkle in their eye. By day two and day three, their whole face is shining. They’re full of this vibrancy and joy they may have never even accessed before. When I look at some of these, let’s call them consciousness-expanding supplements and or plant medicines, the ability, when they’re safely used and guided and respected as the powerful tool that they are, they’re neutral. 

When they are used as a beautiful, powerful tool, they literally help your brain tap into ranges and your nervous system ranges of possibility, especially on the higher level of joy. Just shedding scarcity, trauma, wounds and stories, and limiting beliefs helps you tap into this higher state of self that you’ve maybe always known was there for you, but you had no idea how to get there. For me personally, as a guy, I was emotionally cut off. I didn’t know how to connect with my heart on an intimate level.

I might not have a superhighway yet as my wife has, but I have at least a two-lane road now, and there’s an exit ramp for me to get there versus before I would; it was like I was driving by Disney World, and I’m like, how is everybody having fun over there? How do I get over there? But there’s no exit ramp for me. My wife was complaining for years you’re emotionally shut up; connect with you emotionally. Now she can. Now it’s a really beautiful season that we didn’t go through that season and have to explore some of these, let’s call them consciousness, expanding supplements. I would never access higher parts of myself.

Just shedding scarcity, trauma, wounds and stories, and limiting beliefs helps you tap into this higher state of self.

Wow. Have you tried Iboga?

I have not tried that yet. I hear it’s pretty great, though. I’ve tried, basically, psilocybin, MDMA, and sassafras. A little Incana is another one that you can buy as a supplement. It’s a mood-elevating substance as well. And then, 5-MeO, I’ve done that. I haven’t done a full Ayahuasca journey yet. We’ve had ayahuasca and some of the blends that I’ve taken, but that’s next year, I’m going to do some ayahuasca. Head down and purge whatever’s there.

You know, anything?

No, I haven’t. Have you? 

So you did do buffalo?

I didn’t love it. That was probably one of my least favorite ones. It’s not bad, but I’m not yearning to do it again.

I have done nothing. I’ve done prayer.

If it doesn’t call you, it’s no big deal if you don’t feel drawn to it. We were in a desperate situation, and this had the most promise. Sure enough, it delivered the results that we had hoped for and then some.

Do you do ice baths, red saunas, and other biohacking stuff?

Two or three times a month, I’ll do a cold plunge. We have a membership; we do a hormone clinic as well. Our hormones were both out of whack after that season. I do cryotherapy, cold plunge, sauna or infrared as well. We have infrared devices at home, like a face mask and another tool. I’m not religious about doing it every day or three times a week like some people, but I’ll do it two to four times a month, typically. Cold showers, though, every day since Tony Robbins says. I’m eight years into that.

That’s pretty awesome. You have to get comfortable with being uncomfortable. It’s not just for your health; it’s for your mindset and your willingness to try things that are not easy. How about nootropics?

I love nootropics. We use The Genius Brand, which has been amazing. You can get it on Amazon, but it has a lot of powerful focusing supplements. That’s been terrific. I’ve tried a few other nootropics. A lot of them are great. I wrote my book as well, which is basically 30 days of nootropics and matcha tea every morning at about 4.30 or 5 AM. It helps me lock in and get focused.

That’s cool. We’ll talk about morning rituals that help you get into a flow state and a place of being able to do downloads and stuff. But a couple of nootropic types. I buy things from Nootropics Depot. I’ll buy mushroom powders, like Chaga, red reishi, and turkey tail mushrooms. I’m vegetarian. Those are just a few examples. Tell us more about your morning ritual and how you get into the flow.

To activate flow, you also have to be 10% beyond your comfort zone.

In the morning, especially when I’m on a book or highly creative project, I like to go to bed earlier, so I get up earlier. Before, when the ladies in my household, my daughter and my wife, were up, you didn’t get much done until you got out the door. It becomes a very distracting world. If I can get up at 5 A.M. a couple of hours before they get up, and I’ll usually have about 90 minutes of good flow state, what can I do to activate it? Do you think of, “How do I prime your body?” In the psychology of flow, you’re 500% more productive.

This is where you also activate all six neurochemical cocktails: norepinephrine, serotonin, oxytocin, dopamine, and a few others. I can’t remember all six of them right off the cuff, but it triggers all six of those. It basically elevates your state of happiness and your state of connection. Now, to activate flow, you also have to be 10% beyond your comfort zone. It has to be challenging just enough. It’s not too challenging where it creates a paralysis, a state of paralysis, but also not too easy where you’re just bored. Like heli skiers and big wave surfers, they’re not going from a 20-foot wave to a 100-foot wave. They’re going from a 20-foot wave to a 30-foot wave.

You’re not suggesting a hell of skiing for your first time skiing, in other words.

Exactly. You need enough of a challenge to be confident enough to do it. You also have to pay attention, or you’ll mess it up. I’ll start that day with some breathing work, a little bit of meditation, some movement water, and my vitality boost for NAD optimization because that stimulates your NAD production right away in the morning. If I’m getting up early to focus, I’m also going to do some nootropics, and I’ll jump right in and start on the most valuable project of the day. It might be writing a marketing project or other business project.

You also have to look at your peak emotional energy. You have three to 4 hours a day. If I utilize those three to 4 hours of peak emotional energy on my most valuable activities, I will get the biggest lever. That’s where we want to be with that. That’s how I usually start my day, and get my daughter up at about 7.15 or 7.30. She gets a smoothie every day with pumpkin seeds, granola, and superfoods, and she makes my wife mushroom coffee. She’s got all the turkey tail and all that stuff.

Do you get that brand?

I use Ryze currently. That’s the coffee we get.

There’s another brand that’s pretty popular. I know that Luke Storey would get his podcast sponsored by that brand. It’s not MUD\WTR.

I know MUD\WTR, too. There are a few different ones I can’t remember right off. Hand to hand, that’s what it is for Sigma. They’re great, and they’re a good product, too. What about you?

What do I do to get into flow? I pray. I ask God to put me in a flow state. I know there were 26 different flow triggers, according to Steven Kotler. I realized that I could just pray for it. One time, I was doing 20 days of tracking my blood glucose levels. I had the device on the back of my arm, the continuous glucose monitor. It was late, I was tired, and my blood sugar level had crashed. It was well under the red. 

I was like, “Ugh, I really don’t want to have to get up and eat something or drink something. Please, God, just correct it for me.” Then I fell back asleep. Guess what happened when I checked my monitor in the morning? Sure enough, it was up into the black. Mind over matter. It’s like miracles are what you’re meant to experience. If you just believe in God and have faith in how he or she drives this reality, however, you want to refer to your higher power. 

Just allowing God to override it is like a system override. Physics is subservient to the creator. It might not make sense for a diehard atheist to operate in this way, but it works. I can’t deny the results. I looked at the graph on my tracking in the morning, and it was. It jumped right back up into the black. It’s like, I didn’t do anything. I just prayed. Didn’t even have a glass of water. It was not that that would do anything either because there was no sugar in it, but that was a pivot point for me. I’m underutilizing the power of prayer.

There you go.

I know we’re out of time here. This exploration of incredible highs and lows in your journey has been a great exploration. Thank you for sharing all this. If you wanted to share one last nugget of wisdom before we go, something that we haven’t talked about, what would it be?

Something that we are becoming more aware of in today’s day and age is mental health and trauma.

I think in leadership and entrepreneurship, recognizing that we all have little T or big T trauma, but the heights of our potential are dimmed if we’re carrying it with us. Doing that deep work to work on yourselves and clearing that out, whether it’s through prayer, meditation, psychedelics, somatic therapy, CBT, meditation retreats, breathwork, whatever may work for you, but do the work to study it, to learn it, to create awareness. The best-selling Harvard Business Review article is Peter Drucker’s Managing Oneself. It’s a classic, but at the end of the day, you look at people at the pinnacle of their potential. LeBron James in the sports world or Tom Brady or the business world, even, I don’t know if we want to say Elon right now, but Steve Jobs back in the day, man, they knew how to manage themselves, to get the best from themselves. Something that we are becoming more aware of in today’s day and age is mental health and trauma. It’s okay to talk about it, and it’s okay to work on releasing it so that you can be at your highest and best self. It feels great as you do. 

For somebody who’s unfamiliar with breath work and its power, you can release a lot of DMT just by doing intentional breathwork exercises. I have a whole episode talking about this with Kurtis Thomas, but do you have a particular modality of breathwork that you recommend?

I like Dr. Andrew Weil’s 444 method. A four-second box of breathe-in, hold it released for box breathing. But also, there’s the yoga fast breath, dragon breath, as they call it. That’s really cool. There’s some other Wim Hof that obviously has some great. I’ve done a bunch of them, and I found different purposes and experiences with all of them, and they all have different effects. A longer breath work session, whether it’s 50 minutes, can give you almost a psychedelic and euphoric experience as well.

I’ve had that kind of experience from breathwork.

No doubt. It’s pretty crazy.

Amazing. Thank you, Mike. This was awesome. If our listener is intrigued, we can work with you at your rewired retreats to read your book, purchase the test kit from Jinfiniti, take the supplements from there, or do anything else. Where do we send them to?

The first thing for rewiring and going through a process to guide yourself to rewire your subconscious is neurorewiring.com. It gives 14 steps or 14 keys or tools to rewire in your subconscious. That’s a really powerful asset. You get a powerful email sequence with some of the best videos, training, and opportunities. Then Jinfiniti Welcome20, and they’ll give you 20% off your first order. Then, visit mikezeller.com and geniuswithinbook.com to grab a free copy of my book. It basically covers the shipping and handling of the book.

Thanks for having me on. It’s always great connecting, Stephan.

It is. You’re a force for good in the world. Thank you for being you.

Likewise, you too, my friend.

And thank you, listener. You, too, are also a force for good in the world. We’ll catch you in the next episode. I’m your host, Stephan Spencer, signing off.

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About Mike Zeller

Mike Zeller has founded or partnered in 16+ ventures in 5 different industries, including his latest health venture, www.superhumaniv.com, where his company helps clients slow aging at the cellular level, restore mental health, reverse severe fatigue, and get freed from addiction primarily using nutrient-based IV. When his wife got pregnant in October 2020, she suffered an onslaught of depression, complex PTSD, nearly daily panic attacks and despair. NAD+, one of the treatments we offer, was what helped pull her out of the depths of despair.

His businesses collectively have generated over $100 million in revenue, and he’s had more than his share of wins and failures in life and business, including recovering from losing $1 million in one year.

He is driven to help high achievers unleash their divine potential by stepping into their deepest areas of genius. He’s mentored hundreds of entrepreneurs on six continents of all age ranges and experience, in addition to pro athletes and entertainers. He’s the author of The Genius Within: Finding Your Natural Pathway to Impact, Fulfillment & Wealth.

Disclaimer: The medical, fitness, psychological, mindset, lifestyle, and nutritional information provided on this website and through any materials, downloads, videos, webinars, podcasts, or emails is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical/fitness/nutritional advice, diagnoses, or treatment. Always seek the help of your physician, psychologist, psychiatrist, therapist, certified trainer, or dietitian with any questions regarding starting any new programs or treatments, or stopping any current programs or treatments. This website is for information purposes only, and the creators and editors, including Stephan Spencer, accept no liability for any injury or illness arising out of the use of the material contained herein, and make no warranty, express or implied, with respect to the contents of this website and affiliated materials.