Fix Your Thyroid with Dr. Amie Hornaman

In this Episode

• [01:32]Stephan welcomes Dr. Amie Hornaman, who shares her origin story, beginning with her background in fitness and figure competition.
• [08:23]Dr. Amie reflects on the blessing of her condition.
• [11:46]Dr. Amie describes the shift towards telehealth and online consultations, enabling her to support patients from different states.
• [17:36]Dr. Amie emphasizes the need for comprehensive lab tests and understanding patient experiences to design personalized treatment plans.
• [20:30]Dr. Amie explains that brain fog can stem from factors such as low thyroid function, hormone imbalances, and environmental toxins.
• [24:46]Dr. Amie outlines the major symptoms of hypothyroidism.
• [30:22]Stephan and Dr. Amie delve into the effects of Epstein-Barr Virus (EBV) on autoimmune conditions and thyroid health.
• [33:40]Dr. Amie underscores the significance of optimal testosterone levels for both men and women.
• [40:33]Dr. Amie highlights Berberine’s benefits for blood sugar management and its anti-aging properties.
• [47:25]Stephan and Dr. Amie discuss the value of connecting with nature and practicing gratitude.

Jump to Links and Resources

Dr. Amie, it’s so great to have you on the show.

Thank you. I’m super happy to be here.

We know each other through the Genius Network, which is an amazing group of world changers and open-hearted, heart-centered people. I consider you to be one of those amazing groups of open-hearted givers and lights in the world. Thank you for all you do to help people heal and be their best, optimal selves. 

I’m curious to hear your origin story and how you got so interested in thyroid, specifically, but more generally, in health and hormone optimization and balancing. How did this come about?

Like many of us in this space, many of us go through a trying time that leads us to help others because of what we went through. That was the case with me as well. If we rewind 20 odd years, I would be competing in fitness and figure competitions. Those of you who don’t know what that is, you are basically dieting very hard. You’re eating a very clean nutrition plan of chicken, broccoli, fish, and asparagus. Sometimes you’re going to the gym twice a day. It’s very regimented, it’s very detailed. But I had done plenty of them before I’d done multiple shows.

I was also doing fitness modeling at the time, and I prepared for a photo shoot the same way I did for a show. I knew how my body would respond or should respond. This one particular show I was getting ready for was a bigger show. I had a coach with all of our coaches. Whether you have a business coach or a health coach, you’re always checking in with them, and they’re checking in with you to see your progress in whatever you’re working on. 

I would check in with my coach, and I would have to weigh in in order to tell him, “Hey, this is what’s happening with my body. The body fat is dropping. I’m putting on muscle.” Every week, I would weigh in, step on the scale, and look down. In this particular show, the scale was going up instead of down, which didn’t make sense. Biologically, it didn’t even make sense. Whether you are a believer in calories or not, when you’re eating that clean, when you’re putting nothing but just clean, pure, good food into your body, and you’re expending that much energy with heavy weightlifting and cardio, you really should be body comp changes. 

The fat should be reduced, the muscles should be increasing, or at least staying the same, and you should see some type of change on the scale. I kept weighing in, and the scale kept going up, which produced a lot of self-blame and self-loathing. I would get into the mindset of, “Maybe it’s me. Maybe I’m not working hard enough. Maybe if I just restrict a little bit more and work out a little bit harder, I would do that step on the scale again, and it would be up again.” 

The last time I got on the scale, it was up 25 pounds. I was incredibly exhausted. I started losing my hair and then did what we all do. I went to my doctor and asked, “What’s wrong? Here’s what’s going on. Here’s what I’m doing. Can we please figure out what’s going on with my body? Because I felt my body was rebelling against me.” They did some tests. I can’t even remember if I could go back. 

I would love to see those tests they did because, I guarantee you, they were not thorough. They were not testing everything they needed to test. They ran some tests and came back and said, “You are normal. Everything is fine.” I left there more discouraged and more frustrated. I’m like, “I’m going to get a second opinion here.” I went to doctor number two, who told me to eat less and exercise more. I’m thinking, “Well, I’ve already done that to myself. I’ve already beaten myself up and told myself to eat less and exercise more.” 

At this point, it’s not even possible. It’s not possible to drop my calories anymore. It’s not possible to work out harder. I went to doctor number three, four, five, and six, who all told me I was normal and everything was fine. One of them told me it was all in my head. We call that medical gaslighting because you actually start thinking that you’re crazy and that it is maybe you, and maybe there’s nothing wrong with you, and you’re manifesting these symptoms. 

Finally, doctor number seven touches my throat and says, “Swallow.” She tells me, “You have a goiter. You have a nodule on your thyroid. We’re going to do some ultrasounds and further testing, but here’s a pill that I want you to take.” I was excited. I left her office. I was so pumped up because I had an answer, and I had a pill, and I thought this was going to be my answer to all of my symptoms. I’m finally going to lose the weight. I gave it five months and no change at all on the scale. I went back to her, and again, I went back to doing what we all do. 

I doctor googled, and I looked on Google for thyroid problems. I found this amazing thyroid hormone called T3. I go back to her and say, “Hey, what’s this T3 you gave me? T4”. That’s the inactive thyroid hormone. “Can I have some of these three? She goes, “No, I don’t do that.” I said, “Well, I’m going to find somebody who does.” I kept hearing the name over and over again. You know when the universe gives you signals multiple times, and you’re like, “Maybe I should listen to it now?” 

I kept hearing the name of this functional practitioner over and over again and how he helped all these people. I’m like, “Okay, one last try. One last go. I’m going to go see him.” I went to see him, and he sat down and spent 90 minutes with me. No other doctor had spent more than ten minutes with me. It was amazing. He looked at all of my labs when we tested everything that I needed to be tested. 

He looked at all my labs, my food, and my supplements. He said, “Here’s what’s going on with you. We need to change this up,” and put me on a totally different treatment protocol addressing my thyroid properly. It worked. I lost the weight, and I felt better. I got my energy back, and my hair grew back. From then on, I changed careers because I was in a major medical system. I was in UPMC Pittsburgh, equivalent to Cleveland Clinic or Mayo Clinic, and best of the best doctors. 

Six of them misdiagnosed me, and the seventh one didn’t know how to treat me. I knew this was what I needed to be doing in order to help other people. If I had just gone through that in Pittsburgh, other people would have gone through it. It is all over the world, but definitely all over the United States. That’s how I landed here, specializing in thyroid and hormones.

How long have you been doing this, and when did that happen where you had that breakthrough?

27 years. It was a long time ago. It was back in my 20s. For a body to rebel when you’re young and healthy was another eye-opening experience because as we move into the 30s, 40s, and 50s, our hormones start to change. That’s when we’ll see a lot of thyroid issues, a lot of hormone imbalance. But I got hit hard at a very young age. But I guess that was a blessing because I was able to change careers at a very young age as well.

You said that operative word, “blessing.” It’s hard oftentimes to see what you’re going through as a blessing. But you know what they said about connecting the dots; you only do that going backward instead of forwards. So you see that as a blessing. Now, going through this tumultuous time, a million percent.

I don’t care how many doctors tell you nothing’s wrong with you or they can’t do anything. We absolutely can. There are answers.

Absolutely, a million percent. It’s a blessing because when we’re given hardships of any type, whether it’s health-related or financial, a relationship or family business, we learn from it. Whether or not you want to go through it, you’re learning valuable lessons. When you go through those hard times, and they are building those hard times, those crises are building character in you as well as resilience. I’m a much more resilient person now. Obviously, I love what I do. I love helping other people. I love seeing the results that I had in my patients because I still remember the frustration, even though it was 20-some years ago.

I remember crying in my car. I remember praying that at that point in time. You hate to speak these words out, but I would have taken any diagnosis because it would have been an explanation as to why my body was rebelling against me. That’s a dark place to be in. I don’t want anyone else to go through it if they don’t have to, or I at least want to be able to catch them in those beginning stages where we can say, “Wait a minute, don’t lose hope, don’t give up. There are answers. I don’t care how many doctors told you nothing’s wrong with you or we can’t do anything. We absolutely can. There are answers.”

Going through seven different doctors in order to get the answer was also part of that journey of the blessing because you got to experience what you referred to earlier as medical gaslighting so that you could understand what other people go through. If you had gotten the correct diagnosis in the first go, you would have still received the breakthrough of your health, turning around and being able to pivot change your career into what you do now. 

But with this additional experience of medical gaslighting, you can really speak to the disaffected, the challenged, and the folks who are victimized by the medical establishment and be a voice for those people.

Yes, most definitely.

Amazing. As you mentioned, you received all these signs from the universe. Like all these mentions, this particular functional medicine doctor was the key to your turnaround. What sort of other signs have you gotten from the universe that has really leapfrogged or jumped you forward in your career, life, spiritual connection, or assistance you give to your clients?

Oh, goodness. Well, I guess specifically with what I do in helping people because I could dig deep, and we all get signs and blessings, and if you really step back, miracles occur in your life over and over again. But I would say, and this sounds so crazy, that 2020 and COVID helped in a way because they let people have a more open-minded opinion of how they can get help. 

I think we all grew up in a time when you go to your local PCP, who’s down the street or who’s in your hometown, and if you can’t find someone to help you in your hometown, then you’re just stuck. You’re done. You’re staying exactly where you are and feeling how you are. COVID broke that mindset because we saw an opening of online meetings, Zoom meetings, and even telehealth. The telehealth laws changed during COVID-19, allowing practitioners, doctors, MPs, and PAS to do these virtual visits with people while they were still in their homes.

In fact, they didn’t even have to be in the same state. They could be in a totally different state, and we could meet with them and help them out. Then that extended. It was my goal during COVID-19 to build a network of practitioners and prescribers that would be part of my team so that we could help people in every single state. I didn’t want to be certain. “Oh, no, sorry, you’re in Minnesota. We can’t help you.” I wanted to be able to help everyone in every single state, and I did that.

That was really kind of the blessing of the shutdowns and going more online, as we all did during that time because now people are more open-minded. They realize that they can branch out and get help, not from the doctor that’s down the road, but from a doctor that’s across the country, and they can still get exactly what you need, the bioidentical hormones, the right thyroid medication, the assistance, the help, the support, the nutritional guidance, the lifestyle guidance, the biohacking tools, all of it. We don’t even have to be in your hometown. That was the next big thing that came out on my journey. The next big blessing on my journey.

You mentioned PCP. So primary care providers and anyone who has insurance know that acronym and do not love it, probably because they can’t immediately go to a specialist, even if they know exactly who to go to and what they need or what the problem is in the body, they still have to go to that PCP and get the referral, and who knows how many weeks wait just to get into that primary care provider to get a slip so that they can see the specialist. It’s ridiculous. It’s such a broken system.

It’s a huge broken system. It’s basically sick medicine. The other point to mention that I brought up when describing what I went through is that insurance doesn’t cover more than a seven-minute visit, but maybe a ten-minute visit at maximum. If you want someone to sit down and listen to you and be able to look at your labs like a puzzle and be able to put the pieces together and say, “Okay, you feel poorly because this number is off, and this number is off, and really going back to the name of this podcast, I want you optimized, I want your labs in the optimal range,” and that’s the term that I use, is the functional medicine optimal range, it’s not the sick medicine, standardization, lab value range, the normal range. 

They even have W and l, which are within normal limits. If you’re within normal limits on your labs, you’re ignored. No one is sitting there looking at your labs and going, “Well, is this a low normal? Is this a high normal? How does this pair together with your symptoms? How does this pair together with this lab marker?” That’s the other topic that needs to be addressed everywhere. Everyone needs to break out of insurance, which is going to pay for everything, right? Our parents and our grandparents taught us well: you go to the doctor, and you give them your insurance card, you pay your copay, and everything is covered. Not anymore.

If you really want to be optimized, you have to break out of the insurance-based model.

If you really want to be optimized, you have to break out of the insurance-based model because PCPs, or even some specialists, don’t have the time to spend with you to really dig deep and figure out what you need.

They’re heavily overbooked, so you could be waiting weeks, which could be deleterious to your health if you have an urgent situation and don’t realize it.

Absolutely. My sister is a geriatric doctor, one of the best in the United States, and she has regularly complained to me about being overbooked. You’re talking about older people, you know, people in their 70s or 80s. They need time. They want to be able to sit there and talk to their doctor and understand. She’ll have so many people booked in an hour that she can’t spend the time she needs with them, which is the broken system. 

As much as maybe the docs even want to spend the time, they can’t because the hospital system says, “No, you need to see this quota of patients in a day. So move along. Look at any of the lab markers that are flagged red or have an H or an I next to them. Other than that, don’t converse with this person. Just move on to the next one.”

Very dysfunctional. All right, so let’s go to the opposite end of the spectrum—highly functional. What sort of biohacks and ways to optimize your health and be the CEO of your health would you recommend as the top priorities?

I love to start with full lab tests; don’t guess. We want to look at all of your lab markers, specifically full thyroid panels and full hormone panels, and then the basics, the CBC and the CMP. We want to look at insulin and A1C, which are all markers that tell me a lot about you. Next, I want to ask you the four most important words that any practitioner dealing with your health can ask you. “How do you feel?” We take how you feel, look at it, and overlay it with all of your labs.

Then, we can really design a protocol. Whether that means, “Oh, you know what, you do have low thyroid function.” The thyroid is the master gland. It’s controlling your entire body. Let’s start there and address that because that’s going to have a trickle-down effect on your sex hormones, your insulin, your gut, your nutrient secretion, your libido, your ability to build muscle, your ability to think clearly and process information and be the best worker you can be or run a business or run your family, whatever it is. 

Let’s start at the top with a master gland, and then let’s keep going and see what else we find and what else needs to be addressed. We can use biohacking tools. Biohacking isn’t just an expensive piece of equipment, a sauna or an HBOT machine. It can be using bio-identical hormone replacement. It can use certain nutrients and supplements to address a deficiency or a lack. It can be, “Hey, you know what? You need to increase your protein intake because we’re seeing a little bit of sarcopenia or muscle loss here.” 

Biohacking is kind of combined and blended with health optimization to personalize a treatment for you, whatever that looks like. That’s really where we start. We have to test, don’t guess. Ask how you feel, and then implement that plan according to what we see in your labs and how that pairs up with your symptoms.

Brain fog can be caused by so many different things. We want to test, so don’t guess.

Let’s say you have a symptom of—just hypothetically. I don’t have this, but let’s say—brain fog. Some people have been going through the gamut trying to figure out where this came from. Eventually, after a lot of medical gaslighting, it was found that they had exposure to toxic mold. How would you address somebody who has brain fog as an example? Of course, the protocols you just described, full labs, full hormone panels, and asking them a whole bunch of questions. How do you get to the root cause of something like brain fog?

Exactly. As you said, brain fog can be so many different things.  We want to test, so don’t guess. It could be low thyroid function. It could be that your hormones are off, or it could be low ferritin. It could be, like you said, mold heavy metals. But when we get down into the weeds of, let’s say, mold or heavy metals, or even Lyme disease, tick-borne illnesses, Epstein–Barr virus, all of those, I put in a category of how shored up is your body to deal with that. 

If we took 20 people and exposed them to mold and look at their labs, they probably all have Epstein–Barr virus because I’ve never met a person that doesn’t have EBV. It’s very rare that you’ll find an adult who hasn’t been bitten by a tick at some point in time. Even if you say, I don’t remember ever being bitten by a tick, go ahead and test yourself because there’s going to be some kind of Lyme or tick-borne illness in your lab that’s going to come back positive because I’m one of those. I tested myself. I’m like, “Oh, look, there’s Epstein–Barr virus.” 

There are some heavy metals because I grew up in the time of amalgam fillings—silver fillings filled with mercury. I grew up with a pool filled with chlorine. How short up is that person’s body to deal with the onslaught that is going to come? Because you’re not living in a bubble. So then we go back to what shores up the body. That’s where I go. Let’s make sure your immune system is functioning well. Let’s make sure your gut is functioning well. Let’s make sure your liver is processing toxins and that your thyroid and your hormones are balanced, and then you will have a body that can defend against those onslaughts. 

Whereas if you take a weakened person, I say that lovingly, not like a weak-minded person, but a weakened immune system, a person that has multiple exposures, maybe they’re not eating processed foods, maybe they’re just not taking care of themselves. They have a thyroid that hasn’t been addressed. They’ve been misdiagnosed six times.  You look at how their body deals with mold exposure. They’re going to break down. They’re going to have every symptom in the world. They’re going to feel like absolute garbage, be on the couch, not be able to get out of bed, have all of these histamine reactions, and maybe develop mast cell activation syndrome because their body can’t tolerate it. 

I know that was a really long answer to a short question, but I wanted to address the mold piece because I often see practitioners out there who may specialize in just treating mold. “If we treat your mold, all your life will be shiny, bright and new.” It’s a no. Sometimes, the root cause is not the mold. The root cause is that you have a weakened body, that no one has paid attention to your thyroid, and no one has balanced your hormones.

Your immune system is shy, you’re laden with autoimmune conditions, and your body can’t handle it. Sorry for the long answer, but I wanted to touch on that because I know that’s really popular in functional medicine, like heavy metal, mold, and Lyme specialists. It’s like you can specialize all you want, but if that person isn’t short up and if their body isn’t built up, no new protocol in the world is going to help.

Because we get so much toxic exposure just being out in the world, whether it’s 5g or different kinds of chemicals in the air, water, or food, it’s just everywhere. Glyphosate rained on you just on a regular basis. It’s pretty crazy. So we have to have a short immune system, and one of the ways that we end up getting these various diseases is having a lowered functioning immune system. 

Let’s say that we have some GI issues. You were on my wife Orion’s podcast, Stellar Life, and I believe you guys spoke about gastroparesis. Why don’t you explain that and how that relates to issues with constipation or not eliminating well, as well as the toxin buildup? How can that show up as all these different maladies?

One of the big symptoms of hypothyroidism is constipation, or gastroparesis in a more extreme state, because when you think thyroid hypo low and slow, so everything slows down from your metabolism to your mitochondria, function, energy, ATP production, hair growth, and gut motility. The rate at which your GI tract moves food and toxins through the gut to be eliminated which slows down. We see a lot of constipation or, in extreme cases, gastroparesis. Whenever you have toxins sitting in the gut, they’re going to cause an issue. Now, we know the term leaky gut. I think that’s almost been overused, but everybody knows it.

At least some people don’t know what exactly it is, but they say, “Oh, I think I have a leaky gut.” What essentially it means is that our gut lining from our mouth to our bum is—actually, if we lay it out, the size of a tennis court, which is crazy to think about. Laid out on that tennis court, you have tile. What we thought was grout, like sealing the tile together. But as we study the gut more and more, we know that that grout is not hard, impermeable grout. It’s permeable.

One of the big symptoms of hypothyroidism is constipation or gastroparesis in a more extreme state.

Some people will say it’s more like a sliding or swinging door. However, you want to picture it. Toxins, or what we call lipopolysaccharides, can get through that lining and go into your bloodstream. Naturally, if you’re not processing waste through your body properly, add to that the toxin exposure and the glyphosate. Even if you buy organic, you are not guaranteed pesticide-free. We know that there are certain limits to pesticides that are allowed. 

My husband made this point. It’s so good. He’s like, “Okay, this farmer is organic, and that farmer next to him isn’t. There’s a strong wind. Do you think that the spray is coming on over to the organic farmers?” Good point. We are exposed, and those toxins will permeate the gut. Again, it comes back to how it affects your body. Are you sure? Can you handle those toxins? Can you process those toxins? Is your liver working properly? 

If your thyroid is the root cause problem of why you have this slowed gut motility, my goodness, then let’s fix that because that’s going to fix a boatload of symptoms, because you’re not going to have that waste just sitting there. You’re not going to have food or toxins. LPs sitting in your gut, permeating and going into your bloodstream. Then we know that that is also a trigger for autoimmune conditions. 

Again, if we’re talking thyroid, we’re talking Hashimoto’s. But a really leaky gut is tied to all autoimmune conditions. Where we see one, we see more than one. If you have, let’s say, Hashimoto’s thyroiditis, and you know that you do, and you don’t do anything with your gut, and you don’t optimize your thyroid, and you’re constipated all the time, most likely, we will see that you can be low in nutrients.

There’s a whole host of things that we could talk about to support the immune system, but what you’ll end up seeing is, “Oh, now, this person has rheumatoid arthritis. Now, this person has celiac disease because they will develop other autoimmune conditions.”

Wow. Also, you can get misdiagnosed as having AFib (Atrial Fibrillation) by having this constipation. Then, hypothyroidism.

Bingo. Actually, an employee of mine, before she became an employee, she was a patient. Before she was a patient, she was misdiagnosed with AFib, and she actually had an ablation done. She now knows that was simply the result of her thyroid because she had the ablation. The AFib came back, did thorough testing, found it was her thyroid, did not do additional treatment for the AFib, didn’t do another ablation, didn’t do the metoprolol, fixed her thyroid; the AFib went away.

An ablation is what it’s when.

They actually go in and cauterize part of your heart. It’s a common procedure, but it’s kind of scary when you think about it that they’re actually going up through a leg vein artery and taking a little burning thing into your heart to cauterize it. It’s common, but it’s like you kind of sit back, and you could do, “I want someone poking around with a hot poker in my heart.” You want to avoid that if at all possible.

What’s the old adage? “If you’re a hammer, everything looks like a nail.”

Exactly. Very good.

“I’m a hot poker here; I gotta find a place to use it.”

“Let’s jam it into your heart.”

Wow. I guess she’s doing much better now.

Oh, she’s great. She’s totally fine. She’s optimized. I always talk about optimization land again to kind of go along with the podcast. It’s funny that we both talk about this optimization land. Great place to be. Your energy is good. You’re not gaining weight looking sideways at a brownie. Your brain functions, you’re pooping every day. It’s just you’re in a good mood. I mean, you know, life still happens, but the overall experience of life is a good one, and you need your health optimized in order to feel that way.

Now, you mentioned that many or most people have Epstein-Barr virus, and they just don’t know it. I remember reading the book Medical Medium by Anthony William, who is a medical medium. He talks a lot about EBV, and he’s a big proponent of celery juicing. The ramifications of undiagnosed Epstein-Barr virus are pretty significant. They show up in ways that people tend to think this is normal, to just age and have these issues show up like brain fog and so forth. Can you speak more about the impact of the Epstein-Barr virus?

I describe it to my patients as that little stamp that gets left behind after you have mono. I joke that as soon as I find someone who has a negative EBV test, I want to put them on the wall. Kind of like MVP, like a most valuable employee or whatever, because I haven’t yet. Often, we’ll test someone and say, “Well, you know, you have EBV, it’s dormant, so that it could be a reactivated Epstein–Barr virus, or it can just be dormant, just hanging out in your system, and you might not even know it.” 

You might not even remember having mono. It might have been just a really bad cold that your mom kept you home from school, or you were really sick in college, and you skipped a couple of days of class. You didn’t even know you had mono, but it leaves behind that mark very similar to chickenpox. It can reactivate later in life to become shingles.

We know what reactivates it. Well, a heavy viral load, like, if you get really, really sick, that can reactivate shingles. A lot of stress can reactivate shingles. It is the same thing with EBV stress. Heavy viral loads can reactivate it, and then it goes into that active state to where you feel just exhausted and drained. It feels like you have mono. Now, the other tie-in with EBV is that we’re seeing it very closely connected with Hashimoto’s, which is the autoimmune form of hypothyroidism. That’s where your body attacks your thyroid gland because it thinks it’s a bad guy.

The overall experience of life is a good one, and you need your health optimized in order to feel that way.

We’ll also see that a correlation between EBV and Hashimoto’s occurs, and I haven’t gone deep down the EBV rabbit hole. There are EBV specialists who can go even deeper, but there are some correlations with the increased risk of cancer. There are correlations with an increased risk of other autoimmune conditions. Do you have EBV? Shouldn’t you be supporting your immune system a little bit more? Should you be looking at the stress that you’re under? Should you look to see if you have Hashimoto’s or other autoimmune conditions? Then it just might be knowledge at that point where you go, “Okay, it’s there now.”

Gotcha. Now, let’s say somebody does their lab tests, and it’s a guy, and he has low testosterone levels. What would you recommend as the next step in the process of figuring this out and getting to the root cause, getting some sort of supplementation or protocol in place to turn things around for this guy?

I love testosterone. It’s like my second love next to the thyroid, and I love talking about it for men and women. We’ll start with guys. First of all, we have to start with the lab test. When you men go get your total testosterone checked, you kind of get the shaft when it comes to the standard lab value range. Just like I mentioned earlier, there’s optimal, and then there’s a normal standard lab value range.

The standard lab value range for testosterone for males usually starts on most labs at around 225 or 250. It’ll go all the way up to, if you’re lucky, 1200. But most of the time, it’s down to a thousand. You will get flagged as low only if you are below that 225-250 mark. If you’re above that 225-250 mark, you’re getting told that you’re normal and everything is fine. Really, that’s where guys get the shaft when it comes to testosterone because they could be feeling low, having symptoms of being low, according to functional medicine, but they’re not told that they’re low. They’re blown off. They’re discarded by conventional medicine, and, “Okay, move along. You’re totally fine. Nothing to see here.”

Meanwhile, the poor man is sitting there saying, “I have no libido. I have no motivation. I’m gaining man boobs. I’m gaining all kinds of weight in my midsection. I’m miserable. I’m depressed. I’m anxious. I don’t know what’s going on with me at all. I don’t feel like myself. I’ve lost muscle. I’ve lost strength.” But conventional medicine doesn’t care because you’re within normal limits. When we see that number, first of all, the optimal is 800 or above.

I don’t even want my 76-year-old father to be under an 800 for his testosterone level. Because we know testosterone is cardiovascular protective. It protects your immune system. It basically shores up your body to protect you against autoimmune conditions. That’s why women get more Hashimoto’s than men because you guys have more testosterone in general. Maybe it’s not optimal testosterone, but you have more than we do. 

Testosterone has a host of benefits, including breast cancer protection for women and, obviously, muscle protection. It’s going to protect you against sarcopenia. We know that we lose muscles as we age, and that’s a detriment when it comes to bones breaking and then, ultimately, mortality. We want that testosterone level to be optimal. To do that, yes, we’re going to look at your lifestyle factors. Are you sleeping? Are you lifting heavy? Are you doing the things to support your lifestyle? 

Then, we might move into supplementation. Are you taking zinc? Are you taking mag? There are certain supplements and over-the-counter supplements like testosterone or beta ecdysterone that will naturally support a man’s testosterone level. If you’re coming in at 500 to 600, we could really change up your lifestyle and do some supplementation, and that will most likely push you over and get you into that optimal range. 

But then, sometimes, we just have to use bio-identical testosterone replacement therapy. That’s where we are replacing that testosterone that is no longer being properly made, and we’re bringing you into that optimal range. I’ll use my husband as an example. He’s 57 now. We started him on testosterone about two years ago. He was tested, and his test levels were around three. I want to say 342, 360, or something like that. At his age, he was very healthy. He lifts heavy weights and has a great muscular structure.

He wasn’t really experiencing a whole lot of symptoms. It was just a couple. We caught it early. We tested early. Technically, with his number, he should have been experiencing more symptoms. I think just his lifestyle and how he takes care of himself helps. But we ended up using TRT because at that age lifestyle, which he already had that box checked, and even supplementation isn’t going to bring him up to above an 800. So there, we just had to use testosterone replacement.

When we’re talking about ladies, I’ll be brief here a bit. Ladies, we get the shaft, too. Our standard lab value range starts at maybe two. Actually, this is for total testosterone, by the way. It gets cut off at a 48. You’re not even in the optimal range until you’re flagged high. Ladies, your optimal total testosterone is 50 or above. I have women that feel their best at 100. I have women that feel the best at 200. That becomes very personalized as to where you’re going to land or what your optimal is. 

But we know if your total test is less than 50, you’re going to have symptoms of decreased strength, decreased muscle tone, inability to build muscle, inability to burn fat, fat gain, brain fog, low libido, and low motivation. We’re going to see all of those symptoms as well. We need that testosterone. Again, testosterone protects against breast cancer. It is very protective, and it’s not something that’s talked about enough. 

Then, of course, testosterone also keeps you off the band-aid medications, antidepressants, sleeping pills, statins, and high blood pressure. It’s cardiovascular protective. Why don’t we see the ranges change in conventional medicine on those standard lab value ranges? Honestly, my theory, and not to go down a rabbit hole here, is because testosterone is so protective, it’s going to keep you off the big pharma meds. 

It’s actually going to keep you healthy, and it’s going to keep your body composition really nice. I mean, provided you do your part, you’re not eating at McDonald’s all day and sleeping 5 hours, but you’re doing your part. You get the bang for your buck for putting in the effort, but it’s also going to keep you off of all those big pharma beds. Basically, in a nutshell, sometimes we can make lifestyle and supplemental changes, and sometimes we have to go all the way to testosterone replacement.

Sometimes, we can make lifestyle and supplemental changes, and sometimes, we have to go all the way to testosterone replacement.

Okay, let’s talk about some of those supplements. Not just for boosting testosterone levels but also for improving your thyroid function and overall health. I know, for example, in your conversation with my wife, Orion, you were a proponent of taking Berberine as a supplement to manage your blood sugar levels. Well, first of all, why Berberine? Where did it come about for you to incorporate that as part of your set of recommendations, and then what other supplements?

We know that a lot of biohackers are using metformin, which is a type 2 diabetic drug, as a kind of anti-aging protocol. We know that when insulin levels are high, it increases our risk of Alzheimer’s, dementia, and cancer, and obviously, it puts on weight because insulin is a fat-storage hormone. Ultimately, we want to keep insulin levels low. I heard another practitioner say if you want to age quickly, keep your insulin up. 

If you want wrinkles, brain degeneration, or neurological conditions, go ahead and just keep your insulin up. We want to keep insulin levels low. Metformin is a prescription drug, and with metformin, there’s about 30% of the population that takes it experience really severe GI effects from it, nausea, loose stools, to where they really just can’t tolerate it. They’re like, “This isn’t a good way to live.” 

Enter in Berberine. When you look at the studies of berberine, and it’s just amazing, I have so many of them saved because it’s berberine and whatever, Alzheimer’s, type two diabetes, weight loss, fat loss, just on and on and on the different conditions, because berberine is actually good for the gut, too. It repopulates your microflora. It helps kill off viruses, bacteria, and parasites in the gut as well. 

It was used back in Chinese medicine as an antibiotic, so it has all of these beneficial properties. When you look up the studies, it works very much like metformin, but really with a 5 to 10% GI response in the population. You have a much lesser chance of using berberine than you do metformin at getting those uncomfortable GI effects. There are so many other benefits to using it as well. 

They’re even showing berberine and prevention of cancer because, again, keeping that insulin low is going to help with weight loss, and it’s going to have a host of benefits for your entire body in terms of anti-aging. It’s supplemental, so you can get it over the counter. You don’t have to go beg your doctor for a prescription and then worry about any of the prescriptive side effects. When I first released my supplement line, Berberine was one of the first because I knew that it was of vital importance. I often see insulin resistance, which is like pre-diabetes. We have type two diabetes here.

Insulin resistance is when your cells are resistant to insulin signaling.

What comes before type two diabetes? Insulin resistance is when your cells are resistant to insulin signaling. I see so much of that, especially in my hypothyroid population, that I knew that this was needed. Berberine, 100%. Kind of moving on from there. I think Orion and I talked about T2. That is one of the thyroid hormones. T2 is the only thyroid hormone available in supplemental form, whereas T4 and T3 are prescriptions.

Now, the benefit of the two is that your basal metabolic rate increases ATP production to help with your mitochondrial function. It stimulates brown adipose tissue, which is the protective fat. That’s why we jump in cold plunges to simulate brown adipose tissue. Sometimes, we don’t want to jump in a cold lunge. We can teach you to simulate that bat and improve our insulin sensitivity and lipid panel. 

T2 has a host of beneficial effects on the body. But what I see in my population of patients is weight gain and the inability to lose weight, and they can’t do anything about it, no matter how hard they try. T2 is going to increase the basal metabolic rate, which is the amount of fat that you burn at rest essentially. That was the other supplement that I came up with when the Fixxr supplement line was launched. It was a blood sugar fixxr, thyroid fixxr, and then a hormone fixxr. 

Hormone fixxr addressed the low testosterone in women. Going back to that standard lab value range, whenever I saw a woman with low T, we would use a hormone fixxr. It is a blend of Tribulus and Tongkat Ali and a little bit of boron and saw palmetto, all to help support testosterone production in a woman naturally. That would boost her up. I did bring in a men’s line as well to help support with testosterone. That’s the beta testosterone, testosterone, and fedora aggressors.

That helps support testosterone levels and meds. I would say if I had the order of importance, if you want to add something for biohacking, it would be Berberine and the two. You can get really granular with what’s going on with you. What else do you need?

Now, some of these supplements that I’ll mention, a couple of them that come to mind, that I take on a daily basis. There are bio-optimizers and magnesium breakthroughs, and there is brain octane from Bulletproof, which is C8 MCT Oil. Both magnesium and the MCT oil will cause loose stools. That’s not fun, but it’s like, what do you do about that?

It’s kind of that balancing act. Because we all need mag. All of us are low in Magda, and there are so many different magnesium levels, so it’s important to get a variety. I’ll just take one. I always joke with people that they’re like, “I take mag citrate.” I’m like, “Great, that’ll help you poop.” 

By the way, that BIOptimizers, Magnesium Breakthrough, has seven types of magnesium, so that’s why I like that one.

Absolutely. I’m with you there. Then, I would say MCT is great for brain function and even for fat burning, pushing someone into ketosis. Iodine doesn’t get enough love. Iodine is needed by every cell in the body. Helps with thyroid function, T4 to T3 conversion, hair growth, fibrocystic breasts, and immune system support. That would be another one. 

Then, vitamin D. I call those my no-duh supplements. Like, “Duh, of course, you take them, you take your mag, you take your D, you take your iodine.” That should be every day. We could throw in some B vitamins and essential fatty acids or MCT oil into that. From there, you can get really granular with what you need.

Speaking of essential fatty acids, there’s a relatively newly discovered essential fatty acid, the C15. Fatty15 is where you would order this supplement. I’ve been taking it. I found out about it from the most recent Biohacking Conference, Dave Asprey’s event, that took place last year, and I heard the founder or co-founder speak about this essential fatty acid and ended up buying it. I’ve been taking it for three to four months now. It’s really good. That’s something to look into.

Well, that’s what we do. We experiment on ourselves, and then we relay the information to all.

Well, there’s something that doesn’t cost any money, and it’s such an essential supplement, in my view. I know you’re into it, and it’s like hugging trees and being connected with nature, right? What sort of mystical or awesome experience do you want to share about feeling that sense of connection and oneness with nature and with all that is?

If you believe that you won’t get better, you’ll never lose weight, and you’ll never feel good, then you probably won’t because your mind will drive your progress.

It’s amazing that you asked that because we just moved to this 20-acre piece of property with a ton of trees, and the people before us did this beautiful landscaping. Every day, I walk my dog, and I’ve been able to, ever since being here, really tune into gratitude; you hear so much about it. Have gratitude every day, and start each day with a grateful heart. 

But there’s something that when you actually connect in nature, this might sound woo, but you can feel your heart connection more. You can feel what you’re feeling. You can actually feel what you’re thinking, good or bad. Sometimes, there’ll be times where I’ll stop myself, and I’ll think about what I’m thinking. Even during a meditative walk, it allows you to step back and say that your thoughts really do run your life.

I’ve been bringing this more into even patient treatments because I’ve been telling people, “If you believe that you won’t get better and you’ll never lose the weight and you’ll never feel good, then you probably won’t because your mind will drive your progress.” Again, we can say that with health, we can say that with wealth, and we can say that with business, family, and relationships. If you think that my marriage is never going to work, it’s never going to work. Kind of tying your question together, being in nature and being able to really, for the first time in my life, really get it, make that nature-heart-mind connection has allowed me to better treat my patients because it’s making me think about my thoughts and what results in my life and then their thoughts and what’s coming out of those thoughts and how is it affecting their health and their progress.

It helps with your own fulfillment, too.

Absolutely. 100%.

Awesome. I know we’re out of time, so where do we send our listeners to learn more from you, to buy your supplements, and to maybe perhaps get coaching from you? Where do they go?

Absolutely. If you’re interested in working with us, my team, and me, you can go to dramiehornaman.com and click on book a call. You can book a free application call. We’ll go over your health and what you’re dealing with and then fit you into a protocol that’s going to work for you. If you’re interested in any of the supplements that we talked about today, you can go to betterlifedoctor.com, and you can look for the blood sugar fixxr, the thyroid fixxr, the hormone fixxr, any of the other ones that we have on there that might fit your health needs. The Thyroid Fixer podcast is a great place to dive into all the things that I talk about doing—more deep dives into what we talked about today: thyroid, hormones, insulin, food, exercise, and biohacking. 

Awesome. Well, thank you so much, Amie. Thank you, listener. Make the rest of your week a great rest and reveal some light in the world. We’ll catch you in the next episode. I’m your host, Stephan Spencer, signing off.

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